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did Jesus have a choice to sin while on earth?
- Thread starter gekko
- Start date
It was not possible for Jesus to sin because He was not a sinner. It is the fact that we are sinners that makes us sin, not vice versa. e.g. barking does not make an animal a dog, it barks because its nature is "dogful." Sinning does not make us sinners, we sin because our nature is sinful - it comes naturally. But not to Christ.
That being said, the reality and intensity of His temptation is in no way less real. Jesus, the man, had a physical body that got hungry - food appealed to Him. He desires worship, He desires the kingdoms of the earth. All of those temptations that Satan brought were things that appealed to Him. The fact that He couldn't sin means that He endured greater temptation than any of us ever has, largely because we give in so easily.
That being said, the reality and intensity of His temptation is in no way less real. Jesus, the man, had a physical body that got hungry - food appealed to Him. He desires worship, He desires the kingdoms of the earth. All of those temptations that Satan brought were things that appealed to Him. The fact that He couldn't sin means that He endured greater temptation than any of us ever has, largely because we give in so easily.
Makes absolutely no sense. The very definition of sinner is "one who sins", not one who is predisposed to sin. We are sinners because we sin. "The soul that sins will die".
Your barking analogy is weak, also. If a sinner is one who sins, a barker (not dog) is a dog that barks. We will sin because our nature is sinful, just like the dog will bark (they don't bark immediately after birth), but dogs aren't born barkers...nor are men born sinners.
webdog said:
GE:
When puppies still dog's don't bark? (You cannot know bull terriers!). Men are born sinners; that's why they sin.
Brother Bob
New Member
For this cause, came I into the world and to this end was I born. Do you really believe Jesus could of sinned and destroyed the whole plan of God? "Father, I know you hear me always". He came to bear the sins of others and not His own. It would of completely destroyed everything God had planned for man. So you are saying Jesus had the power to destroy the plan of God. I don't think so.
Puppies whelp and whine, but they don't bark. It sounds like you would equate an infants goo-goo and ga-ga as a viable language. We sin because we have a sin nature. We become sinners after we sin. As Bob pointed out, Adam wasn't born a sinner, meaning that's why he sinned. He became a sinner BY sinning.Gerhard Ebersoehn said:
jshurley04
New Member
Could Jesus Sin?
Yes, Jesus did have the choice of sin, but it was an outward temptation. When man is tempted, he is tempted from the heart or inward. That is where the sinful nature comes from. However, Christ was born of a virgin so He never had an inward sinful nature. So when He was tempted, it was a temptation of outward flesh and not inward heart.TaterTot said:
jshurley04
New Member
Could Jesus Sin?
WOW, Talk about a statement that cannot and is not supported by scripture. We daily face a choice, do I choose to do as Christ leads and directs or do I choose to follow my own desires and urges. Choice is not giving permission to sin, it is simply a point of decision that every man faces on a daily basis. And even if it were sin, we would still not be unblamable.Gerhard Ebersoehn said:
Humans are tempted when they don't know the outcome of the proposal. For example, the alcoholic thinks "I'll only have one drink."
If Jesus knows the outcome of every possible situation then he can't be tempted. For example, I may wonder about what it would be like to bed the neighbor lady but Jesus knows what it would be like to bed every female in the entire world so why should he even bother wondering about it?
If Jesus knows the outcome of every possible situation then he can't be tempted. For example, I may wonder about what it would be like to bed the neighbor lady but Jesus knows what it would be like to bed every female in the entire world so why should he even bother wondering about it?
jshurley04
New Member
Could Jesus Sin?
Very, Very bad example. I would not want to make that kind of implication about the Lamb of God.
Also, bad theology. Man is tempted from the heart in one of three areas, the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes or the pride of life. All of these play on man's own wickedness. When a temptation appeals to one of those areas then man is tempted to sin.
Christ however, did not have that internal heart wickedness that we must overcome in His power. Since His heart was NEVER tempted, even when Satan presented the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes and the pride of life. For us it is an internal temptation, for Christ it was external.
To follow your line of logic, I would never want to go to church on Sunday because I don't know what the outcome will be. Why should I want to sin?
billwald said:
Very, Very bad example. I would not want to make that kind of implication about the Lamb of God.
Also, bad theology. Man is tempted from the heart in one of three areas, the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes or the pride of life. All of these play on man's own wickedness. When a temptation appeals to one of those areas then man is tempted to sin.
Christ however, did not have that internal heart wickedness that we must overcome in His power. Since His heart was NEVER tempted, even when Satan presented the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes and the pride of life. For us it is an internal temptation, for Christ it was external.
To follow your line of logic, I would never want to go to church on Sunday because I don't know what the outcome will be. Why should I want to sin?
I didn't post the whole quote because it was disgusting, but the Bible makes it clear that Jesus was tempted, yet without sin.billwald said:
Mark 1
12 Immediately the Spirit drove Him into the wilderness. 13 And He was there in the wilderness forty days, tempted by Satan, and was with the wild beasts; and the angels ministered to Him.
Hebrews 4
15 For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin. 16 Let us therefore come boldly to the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need.
Notice "tempted AS WE ARE".
So, to say that He can't be tempted is not scriptural.
I know early councils articulation of the Son of God recognized Jesus as 'Fully' man and 'Fully' God with 'both' a human and divine will. It is completely reasonable to acknowledge a real sense of temptation by the human will without the need to undermine the divine wills lack of temptation.
Does that make any sense?
Does that make any sense?
webdog said:
GE:
The fact "we have a sin nature" makes us sinners. "Adam wasn't born a sinner .... he BECAME a sinner BY sinning" -- exactly. But that was Adam -- who did NOT 'have a sin nature'.
Gerhard Ebersoehn said:
No sir. Having a sin nature means we WILL sin when we understand the law. It does not mean we ARE sinners from birth. Paul is very clear in Romans 6 and 7 that it takes the law to define sin and without the law sin is dead.
To give a language example of what goes on here -- I can be born with an artistic nature, but I will never be an artist if I do not express it.
I have a 22 year old profoundly retarded son. His IQ is lower than 20, officially, simply because it cannot be measured. He cannot even sort two things, although he is physically quite healthy and active. He has no concept of 'law' or 'right' or 'wrong.' But he sure knows how to sneak food when he is hungry! Is he sinning? Of course not! Does he have a sin nature. He sure does! He is very, very human. Human enough to drive us clear up the wall occasionally.
He has a sin nature, but he is not a sinner. And that simply because he has no concept of the law and so cannot rebel against it. And it is that rebellion against the law which is what sin is.
Quoted by Amy G:
"....in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin."
I think we sinners should not probe into Jesus' pure and sinless character. It is unbecoming for faith to do so. He was the spotless Lamb of God, and through resurrection from the dead, He has been exalted far above our loftiest thoughts -- how much higher and unreachable is He to our baser, sin-contemplations.
God never sees us in ourselves; He is able to see us only in Christ, or we must die. Let us rather die before Him than to equate Him with ourselves. Leave God's mysteries to and in Jesus; let us, concentrate on His grace and on our duty, resting in Him, doing our daily tasks; it is the best of Christianity.
"....in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin."
I think we sinners should not probe into Jesus' pure and sinless character. It is unbecoming for faith to do so. He was the spotless Lamb of God, and through resurrection from the dead, He has been exalted far above our loftiest thoughts -- how much higher and unreachable is He to our baser, sin-contemplations.
God never sees us in ourselves; He is able to see us only in Christ, or we must die. Let us rather die before Him than to equate Him with ourselves. Leave God's mysteries to and in Jesus; let us, concentrate on His grace and on our duty, resting in Him, doing our daily tasks; it is the best of Christianity.