Did Paul Rebaptize?

[skypair]

Check out the Gospels minus the adulterations C.I. Scofield. There is only one body, one Spirit, one Lord, one faith, and one baptism.

Shame on you for ignoring the element of time! for ignoring the cross!

There is "one faith, one Lord,..." NOW among the saved of the CHURCH, Eph 4:3-6. It is patently not the same faith as when there was no Christ but, in His place, symbology.

Are you a Messianic Jew by any chance? Cause the OT Jews haven't been sanctified in Christ yet. They were justified but we are justified with God and sanctified with the Spirit (which was not "in" them but is "in" us).

You know when your notion of oneness will come true? "In the fulness of times," Eph 1:10 -- in the New Earth when these times of calling out believers are done and ALL believers will live with God in glory, Rev 22.

Until then, your failure to distinguish the 2 only causes confusion for yourself and others. Paul rebaptized John's disciples because there IS a difference and you'd do well to check it out.

skypair

 

[skypair]

See if there is any such what named in the Bible?

One covenant of grace for all people. There is one "plan of salvation" -- faith in God. But that breaks down into two or more covenant expectations -- an earthly kingdom (Abrahamic, Davidic) and a heavenly one (grace).

[/quote]I understand what you are saying. But I do not believe you can separate the OT saints from the everlasting covenant made in Christ from the NT believers. One fold, One Shepard. No division there. Hence why would they need to ever accept Christ?[/quote] Well, I just did a little research and this is what I come up with re: "everlasting covenants." 1) God made an "everlasting covenant with Noah and all mankind never to send a flood again. 2) God made an everlasting covenant with Abraham and his descendants to be their God forever. Upon this were various "installments" such as Millennial promises. There was also a time when God said that Israel would break the covenant and as a result, the world would experience "desolation" (in the tribulation). I am not finding any everlasting covenant into which the Gentiles are brought (except by circumcision maybe -- becoming a Jew in the OT). Even in the NT, it is only given once in Paul's letter to the Hebrews.

So I am not finding authority under the everlasting covenant to not divide the flock into 2 folds (Israel and church) like Jesus said would be the case.

skypair

 

[jne1611]

One covenant of grace for all people. There is one "plan of salvation" -- faith in God. But that breaks down into two or more covenant expectations -- an earthly kingdom (Abrahamic, Davidic) and a heavenly one (grace).

I understand what you are saying. But I do not believe you can separate the OT saints from the everlasting covenant made in Christ from the NT believers. One fold, One Shepard. No division there. Hence why would they need to ever accept Christ?[/quote] Well, I just did a little research and this is what I come up with re: "everlasting covenants." 1) God made an "everlasting covenant with Noah and all mankind never to send a flood again. 2) God made an everlasting covenant with Abraham and his descendants to be their God forever. Upon this were various "installments" such as Millennial promises. There was also a time when God said that Israel would break the covenant and as a result, the world would experience "desolation" (in the tribulation). I am not finding any everlasting covenant into which the Gentiles are brought (except by circumcision maybe -- becoming a Jew in the OT). Even in the NT, it is only given once in Paul's letter to the Hebrews.

So I am not finding authority under the everlasting covenant to not divide the flock into 2 folds (Israel and church) like Jesus said would be the case.

skypair[/quote]
Well then your understanding is that there are two kinds of the people of God?

Did not Rom 11 say that, Rom 11:17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou,[Gentiles] being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;

Sounds like one people to me.
Also: Rom 11:23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.

Graft them, that is the nation of Israel back into what? Answer: The ONE big happy family.

No division.

 

[skypair]

I understand what you are saying. But I do not believe you can separate the OT saints from the everlasting covenant made in Christ from the NT believers. One fold, One Shepard. No division there. Hence why would they need to ever accept Christ?

I hope I got the quote right. Here's why --- because the scripture says "EVERY knee shall bow and EVERY tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord."

That's the simple answer. The "college" answer is because they haven't been sanctified by the Holy Spirit indwelling yet. It is what the OT called the "new covenant and they haven't come under it yet, right?

It might interest you that indwelt by the Spirit is called "terrestrial glory," 1Cor 15:40. WE are already glorified "terrestrially" like Rom 8:30 says -- justified, glorified. Did you ever wonder why Paul skipped "sanctification" in this passage? Well, now you know why. Sanctification IS glorification of a sort!

Well then your understanding is that there are two kinds of the people of God?

Yes. Does that not make sense to you? God said of Israel "you are my chosen people" and yet He said He would call a people who were not people and they would hear him and Israel wouldn't.

Did not Rom 11 say that, Rom 11:17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou,[Gentiles] being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;

jne, the "olive tree" is religious Israel -- style of worship acceptable to God! Burnt sacrifices are no longer the "norm." God doesn't even want a "people" coming to Him in that manner! But because Jeduasm didn't change (on account of unbelief), they were cut out! Do you see the imagery now? Yes, we are "rooted and stemed" in the imagery of religious Israel but we are not to continue therein.

However, if you know about prophecy, we will be gone and God WILL accept religious Israel's worship with sacrifices again -- in the tribulation and in the MK.

Sounds like one people to me.
Also: Rom 11:23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graft them in again.

Yes! The 70th week of Daniel. Notice how Paul says "if thou wert cut out..." (11:23). We WILL be cut out -- in the rapture -- and they will be grafted back in, jne. STILL separate so that God may fulfill His promises to them in the MK (Abrahamic, Davidic, new covenants!).

And afterward, yes, ONE in the "kingdom of God" -- New Earth," Rev 22!

skypair

 

[jne1611]

I hope I got the quote right. Here's why --- because the scripture says "EVERY knee shall bow and EVERY tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord."

That's the simple answer. The "college" answer is because they haven't been sanctified by the Holy Spirit indwelling yet. It is what the OT called the "new covenant and they haven't come under it yet, right?

It might interest you that indwelt by the Spirit is called "terrestrial glory," 1Cor 15:40. WE are already glorified "terrestrially" like Rom 8:30 says -- justified, glorified. Did you ever wonder why Paul skipped "sanctification" in this passage? Well, now you know why. Sanctification IS glorification of a sort!

Yes. Does that not make sense to you? God said of Israel "you are my chosen people" and yet He said He would call a people who were not people and they would hear him and Israel wouldn't.

jne, the "olive tree" is religious Israel -- style of worship acceptable to God! Burnt sacrifices are no longer the "norm." God doesn't even want a "people" coming to Him in that manner! But because Jeduasm didn't change (on account of unbelief), they were cut out! Do you see the imagery now? Yes, we are "rooted and stemed" in the imagery of religious Israel but we are not to continue therein.

However, if you know about prophecy, we will be gone and God WILL accept religious Israel's worship with sacrifices again -- in the tribulation and in the MK.

Yes! The 70th week of Daniel. Notice how Paul says "if thou wert cut out..." (11:23). We WILL be cut out -- in the rapture -- and they will be grafted back in, jne. STILL separate so that God may fulfill His promises to them in the MK (Abrahamic, Davidic, new covenants!).

And afterward, yes, ONE in the "kingdom of God" -- New Earth," Rev 22!

skypair

Well. I am glad you do provide reasons for your statements. But, I do not agree with your interpretation of those verses. Being cut out meaning the rapture? That is not even close to the context of what he is saying. You cannot get two kinds of the people of God out of that. They are divided by time only. The Scripture you quoted said that those people who were not His people would be called the people of God. OK. Israel was not His people till He called them either. According to the context we are all part of the same root. All getting our life from the same source. Yes the whole has not come in yet, but through the election of grace they are considered the people of God still and will be brought to repentance. I do not see a division. Every one of them will have been bought by the blood of Christ.

 

[jne1611]

Quote:Yes! The 70th week of Daniel. Notice how Paul says "if thou wert cut out..." (11:23). We WILL be cut out -- in the rapture -- and they will be grafted back in, jne. STILL separate so that God may fulfill His promises to them in the MK (Abrahamic, Davidic, new covenants!).

And afterward, yes, ONE in the "kingdom of God" -- New Earth," Rev 22!End Quote.


To this I agree. There will be differences in the dealings of God with the two groups, but I do not see that they are different or divided in the sense of their redemption. The rewards are different during the ML, positions as well just like in the offices of the Church, but my point is they are all one unit when it comes to redemption by the blood and being the sons of God.

 

[skypair]

There will be differences in the dealings of God with the two groups, but I do not see that they are different or divided in the sense of their redemption. The rewards are different during the ML, positions as well just like in the offices of the Church, but my point is they are all one unit when it comes to redemption by the blood and being the sons of God.

Well, I guess we agree then. I said there is only one way -- faith in God. That's called the spiritual "vine" of which we are all a part.

Course, the fig tree is national Israel -- cursed at Christ's first advent and reappearing now in these last days.

And the olive tree is religious Israel -- with TWO kinds of branched, natural and wild. The whole religious system changed and WE church hace different "inheritances" than Israel (our is NOT the promised land, the Davidic covenant of earthlyu Millennial rule, the Mosaic covenant of ritual and law, etc.).

In place of all that we church have the indwelling Spirit and a heavenly inheritance forever, NJ.

skypair

 

[jne1611]

Well, I guess we agree then. I said there is only one way -- faith in God. That's called the spiritual "vine" of which we are all a part.

Course, the fig tree is national Israel -- cursed at Christ's first advent and reappearing now in these last days.

And the olive tree is religious Israel -- with TWO kinds of branched, natural and wild. The whole religious system changed and WE church hace different "inheritances" than Israel (our is NOT the promised land, the Davidic covenant of earthlyu Millennial rule, the Mosaic covenant of ritual and law, etc.).

In place of all that we church have the indwelling Spirit and a heavenly inheritance forever, NJ.

skypair

We most likely have different ways of saying vertically with a few ins and outs, the same thing. It's not something I feel to be a damnable heresy to differ on the events of the last days anyway. We all have our views on this subject.
My dealings with most pre mils though has been a lot of messed up ideas. Some of them go way out of the way to try and make a case. Thanks for the talk.