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Did the Deacon Nicolas fall away from Christ?

Discussion in '2005 Archive' started by icthus, Apr 8, 2005.

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  1. icthus

    icthus New Member

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    We Read in Acts chapter 6, of the appointment of seven Deacons for the early Church.

    "wherefore, brethern, look ye out among you seven men of honest report, full of the Holy Spirit, and wisdom...and they chose Stephen, a man full of faith and of the Holy Spirit, and Philip, and Nicanor, and Timon, and Parmenas, and Nicolas a proselyte from Antioch" (verses 3,5)

    In the Book of Revelation, Jesus says:

    "But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolatians, which I also hate" (2:6, also verse 15)

    Now, the Bishop of Lyons, Irenaeus (A.D.130-200), wrote extensively against the heresies and heretics of his day. And this is what he had to say of the Nicolatians:

    "The Nicolaitanes are the followers of that Nicolas who was one of the seven first ordained to the diaconate by the apostles .They lead lives of unrestrained indulgence. The character of these men is very plainly pointed out in the Apocalypse of John, [when they are represented] as teaching that it is a matter of indifference to practise adultery, and to eat things sacrificed to idols. Wherefore the Word has also spoken of them thus: “But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitanes, which I also hate.” (Against Heresies, Book I, chapter 26, 3)

    The Book of Revelation was written towards the close of the first century, probably 90 A.D, so the time Irenaeus wrote, was not that much later.The Church fathers, Hippolytus (170-236), and Epiphanius (315-403), also mention that this sect mentioned in Revelation was that of the Deacon, Nicolas.

    Here we have a person who was truly born again, as being rejected by the Lord Jesus Christ, since he fell away from the faith.
     
    #1 icthus, Apr 8, 2005
  2. icthus

    icthus New Member

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    I am sorry, but this post came through twice.
     
    #2 icthus, Apr 8, 2005
  3. JackRUS

    JackRUS New Member

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    Where does it say that he lost his salvation? I read that God hates the deeds of a sect that was named after him (maybe). Even Calvinists will agree that Calvin would blush at the teachings of some of his followers.

    And if you believe that all of the collected writings of the Early Church Fathers are unchanged and perfect, then you should be a Catholic. Have a nice Mass on Sunday.
     
    #3 JackRUS, Apr 8, 2005
  4. icthus

    icthus New Member

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    Where does it say that he lost his salvation? I read that God hates the deeds of a sect that was named after him (maybe). Even Calvinists will agree that Calvin would blush at the teachings of some of his followers.

    And if you believe that all of the collected writings of the Early Church Fathers are unchanged and perfect, then you should be a Catholic. Have a nice Mass on Sunday.     </font>[/QUOTE]Wow, you sound bitter and in great need of the love of the Lord in your life. You should be careful to call a born-again believer a Catholic, as it God who you will hurt most
     
    #4 icthus, Apr 9, 2005
  5. Wes Outwest

    Wes Outwest New Member

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    JackRUS,
    Were the sins of Nicolas atoned for? YES!

    Did Nicolas retain his faith or lose faith?
    Seems he lost his faith, therefore Nicolas was not saved because he lacked faith in God, not because of his sins!

    Was he saved at the time of his appointment as a deacon? We have no reason to doubt that! But if he lost his faith, he lost his salvation for we are saved through faith!
     
    #5 Wes Outwest, Apr 9, 2005
  6. NateT

    NateT Member

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    I think the first reply makes the most sense. The book of revelation deals with the Nicoletians, those who were followers of him. It is possible that they misunderstood what he was saying and took that teaching to an extreme. If it had said "I had Decaon Nicolas and all his followers" that would be a different story.
     
    #6 NateT, Apr 9, 2005
  7. 4His_glory

    4His_glory New Member

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    I am glad my salvation does not depend on what I do! I couldn't live in continual doubt like that. Thank God it is all of His amazing grace.
     
    #7 4His_glory, Apr 9, 2005
  8. Wes Outwest

    Wes Outwest New Member

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    4his_glory,
    There is no doubt in knowing the possibility of losing one's faith exists. It is human nature to protect one's "assets", and those with faith in God are no different when it comes to their faith! I do all that I can to retain my faith in God, and all that I can do is keep myself in HIS word AND filter everything else by it! That which is not in accord with his word is filtered out as "perishable"! I do not give it a foothold with which to destroy my faith in God.

    There are many however that do not understand the principle of compounding one's investment by building on it. And they tend to let the "cares of the world" come in and choke out their faith...thus losing their faith. There are those who plant but fail to nourish and water their faith...thus their faith dies of starvation resulting in loss. There are those who "took in" faith, but have no interest in it now...Thus they lack faith.

    Only those who die from the natural with faith in their spirit receive the promised salvation!

    NO DOUBT IN MY MIND!
     
    #8 Wes Outwest, Apr 9, 2005
  9. JackRUS

    JackRUS New Member

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    Your theology should be based on God's Word, not "ifs".

    Rom. 8:28-39 (Notice the "all things" in verse 28)

    As for the sins of Nicolas being atoned for, how would you know? Don't you believe in Limited Atonement? According to your theology maybe this poor fellow wanted to accept Christ but sadly he wasn't on God's select list. So, no salvation for you Nick! (Sigh)
     
    #9 JackRUS, Apr 9, 2005
  10. icthus

    icthus New Member

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    Your theology should be based on God's Word, not "ifs".

    Rom. 8:28-39 (Notice the "all things" in verse 28)

    As for the sins of Nicolas being atoned for, how would you know? Don't you believe in Limited Atonement? According to your theology maybe this poor fellow wanted to accept Christ but sadly he wasn't on God's select list. So, no salvation for you Nick! (Sigh)     </font>[/QUOTE]Do you guys ever read the Bible. Read the account in Acts chapter 6, and you will see that ALL seven Deacons were truly saved.
     
    #10 icthus, Apr 10, 2005
  11. Wes Outwest

    Wes Outwest New Member

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    I'm sorry that you haven't noticed that my theology is based on God's word. Either you don't recognize God's word or I am not putting enough scripture references in my posts.

    Ever notice the past tense of verse 30?

    You have me confused with someone else. I have never believed in limited atonement! And indeed if you read my posts you will see that I have oft stated that man no longer dies for sins but dies due to lack of faith only. All sin in ALL times has been atoned.

    I do not believe in general election! I do not believe there is "An Elect" today, save for those whom God calls into His direct service, and His chosen Race. I believe that God elected those he needs to do His work in every age, and one just departed this life who was an elect of God. Some notables include: The apostles, Abraham, Joseph, Daniel, Nehemiah, Ezra, David, etc., etc.
     
    #11 Wes Outwest, Apr 10, 2005
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