Alan Gross
Well-Known Member
Did you have a testimony of conversion you would like to share?
Does it agree with the following?
from http://www.ntslibrary.com/PDF Books II/Simmons - A Systematic Study of Bible Doctrine.pdf
(1) Conversion Involves Turning From Sin, and Man By Nature Is Unable To Do This.
Man by nature is able to reform his life to some extent. He can turn from some forms of sin.
But he is unable by nature to change the governing disposition of his nature.
This is proved by Jer. 13: 23, which reads: "Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots? Then may ye also do good that are accustomed to do evil."
The sinner is accustomed to do evil. Therefore it is impossible for him to turn from evil (or sin) until his governing disposition is changed. This is just as impossible as it is for the blackest Negro to make himself white, or the leopard to divest himself of his spotted robe.
(2) Conversion is Pleasing to God, and the Natural Man Cannot Please God.
No one can doubt the first part of the above statement.
The last part is proved by Rom. 8:8, which says: "They that are in the flesh cannot please God."
This includes all to whom God has not given a new nature.
(3) Conversion is a Good Thing, and no Good Thing Can Proceed from the Natural Heart.
Paul said that there was no good thing in his fleshly nature (Rom. 7:18).
This is the only nature man has until God gives him a new one.
And since no good can come out of that in which no good exists,
conversion cannot proceed from the fleshly nature.
Therefore the giving of the new nature, or quickening, must come before conversion.
To affirm otherwise is to deny total depravity,
which means that sin has permeated every part of man's being
and poisoned every faculty, leaving no good thing in the natural man.
(4) Conversion Involves Subjecting Oneself to the Will or Law of God,
and This is Impossible to the Natural Man.
That such is impossible to the natural man is established by Rom. 8:7, in which we read: "The mind of the flesh is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be."
(5) Conversion Involves Receiving Christ as One's Personal Saviour,
which is a Spiritual Thing, and the Natural Man Cannot Receive Spiritual Things.
This latter truth is declared in 1 Cor. 2:14, as follows: "The natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him; and he cannot know them, because they are spiritually judged."
If the truth of Christ's saving power through faith is not a thing of the Spirit of God,
that is, a thing that man can understand only through the revelation of the Spirit
then what truth is a thing of the Spirit of God?
(6) Conversion is a Spiritual Resurrection and in a Resurrection,
the Impartation of Life Must Always Precede the Manifestation of Life in Coming Forth.
Conversion is represented as a spiritual resurrection in Eph. 2:4-6, which says: "God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, even when we were dead in sin, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved); and hath raised us up together and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus."
The raising up here represents a conversion. So the question we are considering is as to which is first, the quickening or the raising up. There can be no reasonable doubt that the quickening is first in a logical sense.
(7) Conversion Involves Coming to Christ,
and the Act of the Father in Giving Men to Christ Precedes Their Coming to Christ.
In John 6:37 we read as follows:
"All that the Father giveth me shall come unto me."
This passage certainly places the Father's act of giving men to Christ
logically prior to their coming to Christ.
This act of the Father is a discriminative, effective act,
for all that are given come and all men do not come.
Thus this act of giving could not allude to the mere giving of the opportunity of coming to Christ
nor could it allude to the so-called "gracious ability" which is supposed by its advocates to be bestowed upon all men.
This act can refer to nothing short of the actual giving of men over into the immediate possession of Christ by quickening them into life. Men come to Christ in conversion.
Thus quickening must precede conversion.
(8) Conversion Involves Coming to Christ,
and no Man Can Come to Christ Except God Give Him the Ability to do so.
In John 6:65 we read: "No man can come unto me, except it be given unto him of my Father." This passage, as the one just noticed, does not refer to the mere giving of the opportunity to come to Christ, nor to the impartation of so-called "gracious ability" for the same reasons stated above in comment on John 6:37.
This latter passage, like the former one, refers to a discriminative act. The context makes this clear in the case of John 6:65. The words of this passage were spoken in view of and as an explanation of the fact that some believe not. Neither of these latter passages can refer to any kind of mere assistance that God might be supposed to bestow on the natural man, for repentance and faith cannot proceed from the natural heart, as we have shown. Both passages can refer to nothing short of the quickening power of God, in which men are enabled to come to Christ.
2. SCRIPTURES EXPLAINED It being true that conversion is the result of quickening and therefore, not a condition thereof, it may be asked how we are to understand those Scriptures that make faith a condition of sonship. See John 1:12; But as many as received him,
to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
We reply that this passage refers to sonship through adoption
and not to sonship through regeneration.
As we have already noted, adoption is a legal term.
It comes as an immediate result of justification.
It is not the same as regeneration.
It confers the right of sonship.
Regeneration confers the nature of sons.
Does it agree with the following?
from http://www.ntslibrary.com/PDF Books II/Simmons - A Systematic Study of Bible Doctrine.pdf
(1) Conversion Involves Turning From Sin, and Man By Nature Is Unable To Do This.
Man by nature is able to reform his life to some extent. He can turn from some forms of sin.
But he is unable by nature to change the governing disposition of his nature.
This is proved by Jer. 13: 23, which reads: "Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots? Then may ye also do good that are accustomed to do evil."
The sinner is accustomed to do evil. Therefore it is impossible for him to turn from evil (or sin) until his governing disposition is changed. This is just as impossible as it is for the blackest Negro to make himself white, or the leopard to divest himself of his spotted robe.
(2) Conversion is Pleasing to God, and the Natural Man Cannot Please God.
No one can doubt the first part of the above statement.
The last part is proved by Rom. 8:8, which says: "They that are in the flesh cannot please God."
This includes all to whom God has not given a new nature.
(3) Conversion is a Good Thing, and no Good Thing Can Proceed from the Natural Heart.
Paul said that there was no good thing in his fleshly nature (Rom. 7:18).
This is the only nature man has until God gives him a new one.
And since no good can come out of that in which no good exists,
conversion cannot proceed from the fleshly nature.
Therefore the giving of the new nature, or quickening, must come before conversion.
To affirm otherwise is to deny total depravity,
which means that sin has permeated every part of man's being
and poisoned every faculty, leaving no good thing in the natural man.
(4) Conversion Involves Subjecting Oneself to the Will or Law of God,
and This is Impossible to the Natural Man.
That such is impossible to the natural man is established by Rom. 8:7, in which we read: "The mind of the flesh is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be."
(5) Conversion Involves Receiving Christ as One's Personal Saviour,
which is a Spiritual Thing, and the Natural Man Cannot Receive Spiritual Things.
This latter truth is declared in 1 Cor. 2:14, as follows: "The natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him; and he cannot know them, because they are spiritually judged."
If the truth of Christ's saving power through faith is not a thing of the Spirit of God,
that is, a thing that man can understand only through the revelation of the Spirit
then what truth is a thing of the Spirit of God?
(6) Conversion is a Spiritual Resurrection and in a Resurrection,
the Impartation of Life Must Always Precede the Manifestation of Life in Coming Forth.
Conversion is represented as a spiritual resurrection in Eph. 2:4-6, which says: "God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, even when we were dead in sin, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved); and hath raised us up together and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus."
The raising up here represents a conversion. So the question we are considering is as to which is first, the quickening or the raising up. There can be no reasonable doubt that the quickening is first in a logical sense.
(7) Conversion Involves Coming to Christ,
and the Act of the Father in Giving Men to Christ Precedes Their Coming to Christ.
In John 6:37 we read as follows:
"All that the Father giveth me shall come unto me."
This passage certainly places the Father's act of giving men to Christ
logically prior to their coming to Christ.
This act of the Father is a discriminative, effective act,
for all that are given come and all men do not come.
Thus this act of giving could not allude to the mere giving of the opportunity of coming to Christ
nor could it allude to the so-called "gracious ability" which is supposed by its advocates to be bestowed upon all men.
This act can refer to nothing short of the actual giving of men over into the immediate possession of Christ by quickening them into life. Men come to Christ in conversion.
Thus quickening must precede conversion.
(8) Conversion Involves Coming to Christ,
and no Man Can Come to Christ Except God Give Him the Ability to do so.
In John 6:65 we read: "No man can come unto me, except it be given unto him of my Father." This passage, as the one just noticed, does not refer to the mere giving of the opportunity to come to Christ, nor to the impartation of so-called "gracious ability" for the same reasons stated above in comment on John 6:37.
This latter passage, like the former one, refers to a discriminative act. The context makes this clear in the case of John 6:65. The words of this passage were spoken in view of and as an explanation of the fact that some believe not. Neither of these latter passages can refer to any kind of mere assistance that God might be supposed to bestow on the natural man, for repentance and faith cannot proceed from the natural heart, as we have shown. Both passages can refer to nothing short of the quickening power of God, in which men are enabled to come to Christ.
2. SCRIPTURES EXPLAINED It being true that conversion is the result of quickening and therefore, not a condition thereof, it may be asked how we are to understand those Scriptures that make faith a condition of sonship. See John 1:12; But as many as received him,
to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
We reply that this passage refers to sonship through adoption
and not to sonship through regeneration.
As we have already noted, adoption is a legal term.
It comes as an immediate result of justification.
It is not the same as regeneration.
It confers the right of sonship.
Regeneration confers the nature of sons.
