Difficulty Writing Well

[Guido]

I think that now I can write succinctly, although not always able to in the past. But more than desiring to do that, I want to write in a rhythmic style, which indeed I've managed to write a number of times, being unable to at other times because of severe mental blocks impeding my verbal fluency or my ear for rhythm.

How did the translators of the KJV do it? Were they simply inspired by God? Or were they men of great skill who applied numerous successive revisions to the text? I'm not going to dare comparing myself with them although I would like to, but I want to know how they obtained that literary ability?

When I say rhythm, I am not referring to a regular beat as in a song, but the kind of rhythm found in all good prose, the best of which is found in the KJV.

I also have mental blocks that keep me from coming up with ideas but I think I can probably deal with that just by keeping a journal, which I have attempted to but have hard time getting into the regular habit of doing.

I did not use any special rhythm in this post. I just tried to make it clear and not monotonousness. Obviously, it doesn't flow very well. One post I wrote here sounded worst of all. The words that most easily come to me are not the best words. That's why, when I write something that I consider rhythmic, it takes careful revision. If I try to edit as I go, not writing a rough draft, I yield no rhythm, no clarity, and no sense.

I know that repetition and variety in sentence structure are two keys to rhythm, but attention to stressed and unstressed syllables are just as important. I don't know about the length of grammatical phrases but I'm sure thinking in phrases as you write make this easier (noun phrase, verb phrase, prepositional phrase, etc, not only for their lengths but also for their stress patterns.)

I did not outline or write a rough draft of this post. I just edited as I went because I'm not aiming for rhythm or structure.

I don't know if the same Erasmus who was involved with the KJV wrote De Copia but I have that book and tried to apply it. It's about phrasing the same sentence is a many ways as possible for variety. I was trying to use it for rhythm but I did not use all the methods because I didn't think that they all would preserve the sense of a sentence if used. Also, I was having trouble understanding some of the methods. Also, in the past I used some of them without knowing what they were.

Anyway, I just wanted to start a discussion about difficulty writing and the literary skill of the KJV translators, who were the best writers, even though modern readers often have trouble understanding the KJV. I'm not trying to distract attention from the KJV being the word of God. I'm just trying to draw attention to its literary qualities and what we can learn about writing from it. But if the translators' skill had nothing to do with it, and it was the hand of God alone, maybe we shouldn't even bother imitating it because it might be a sin.

 

[SGO]

Many will try to block you for your statement above.

To what do you credit your improvement?

Be ye followers of me,
even as I also am of Christ.
1 Corinthians 11:1

 

[Guido]

Many will try to block you for your statement above.

To what do you credit your improvement?

Be ye followers of me,
even as I also am of Christ.
1 Corinthians 11:1

I know that no one has any gifts/skills/etc except what God has given them (well, I know people practice witchcraft and stuff which does not come from God). I am just saying uncertain as to whether the translators translated by the gifts/skills that God gave them or by direct inspiration from God.

Also, I'm not exactly sure what you are saying.

 

[SGO]

All of us are being brought to Christlikeness.

But we all,
with open face beholding as in a glass
the glory of the Lord,
are changed into the same image
from glory to glory,
even as by the Spirit of the Lord.
2 Corinthians 3:18

The process seems very slow to many.

So what do you think has made you a better writer?
Did it happen all at once?

 

[Guido]

All of us are being brought to Christlikeness.

But we all,
with open face beholding as in a glass
the glory of the Lord,
are changed into the same image
from glory to glory,
even as by the Spirit of the Lord.
2 Corinthians 3:18

The process seems very slow to many.

So what do you think has made you a better writer?
Did it happen all at once?

I should be very careful about claiming to be a good writer. I don't want to claim that.

As for becoming a better writer, it did not happen all at once. I improved over time.

Also, according to the verse you just quoted, all believers are being sanctified. So, that means, every Christian should be bearing more and more fruit, even if over very long period of time. But I did not know that verse could be applied the way that you just did.

In my most recent thread before this one I asked a question about sanctification. This seems to answer it. But now I have to reject what some antinomian Pastors say if I really believe that. (Antinomian doesn't mean you should not keep the law, I don't think, it just means you're saved even if you don't.)

 

[SGO]

Better than previously, you can claim.

What effected the improvement?

Could you, perhaps, attribute a little to reading a rhythmic bible translation?

 

[Reynolds]

I think that now I can write succinctly, although not always able to in the past. But more than desiring to do that, I want to write in a rhythmic style, which indeed I've managed to write a number of times, being unable to at other times because of severe mental blocks impeding my verbal fluency or my ear for rhythm.

How did the translators of the KJV do it? Were they simply inspired by God? Or were they men of great skill who applied numerous successive revisions to the text? I'm not going to dare comparing myself with them although I would like to, but I want to know how they obtained that literary ability?

When I say rhythm, I am not referring to a regular beat as in a song, but the kind of rhythm found in all good prose, the best of which is found in the KJV.

I also have mental blocks that keep me from coming up with ideas but I think I can probably deal with that just by keeping a journal, which I have attempted to but have hard time getting into the regular habit of doing.

I did not use any special rhythm in this post. I just tried to make it clear and not monotonousness. Obviously, it doesn't flow very well. One post I wrote here sounded worst of all. The words that most easily come to me are not the best words. That's why, when I write something that I consider rhythmic, it takes careful revision. If I try to edit as I go, not writing a rough draft, I yield no rhythm, no clarity, and no sense.

I know that repetition and variety in sentence structure are two keys to rhythm, but attention to stressed and unstressed syllables are just as important. I don't know about the length of grammatical phrases but I'm sure thinking in phrases as you write make this easier (noun phrase, verb phrase, prepositional phrase, etc, not only for their lengths but also for their stress patterns.)

I did not outline or write a rough draft of this post. I just edited as I went because I'm not aiming for rhythm or structure.

I don't know if the same Erasmus who was involved with the KJV wrote De Copia but I have that book and tried to apply it. It's about phrasing the same sentence is a many ways as possible for variety. I was trying to use it for rhythm but I did not use all the methods because I didn't think that they all would preserve the sense of a sentence if used. Also, I was having trouble understanding some of the methods. Also, in the past I used some of them without knowing what they were.

Anyway, I just wanted to start a discussion about difficulty writing and the literary skill of the KJV translators, who were the best writers, even though modern readers often have trouble understanding the KJV. I'm not trying to distract attention from the KJV being the word of God. I'm just trying to draw attention to its literary qualities and what we can learn about writing from it. But if the translators' skill had nothing to do with it, and it was the hand of God alone, maybe we shouldn't even bother imitating it because it might be a sin.

I can't help you there. I am an old Redneck who did make all As in College English and literature classes but quit using those skill at graduation.

 

[Guido]

Better than previously, you can claim.

What effected the improvement?

Could you, perhaps, attribute a little to reading a rhythmic bible translation?

Yes, of course.

 

[Guido]

At some point during my teenage years, I became fascinated with emulating the prose style of the KJV. But I was not able to fully do this. I managed to write in a style that possessed some form of rhythm resembling that of the KJV, but it was not really that close in resemblance to its rhythm. What I wanted to do was emulate all the rhetoric, all the structural sophistication of sentences, all the rhythm, all the arrangement and flow of argument, of the KJV Bible. But I came no where near close to dong this.

Right now I am just trying to write as clearly as I can. As I would constantly write nonsensical passages, I had always been told to master clarity first. So that is what I am doing.

I think that perhaps the KJV is not the best example of easy to understand prose, even though it is very beautiful. I know the NLT may be a corrupt paraphrase, but although it is no where near as beautiful as the KJV, it seems to possess clarity and some degree of good sound.

If I am to write in a good prose style, I want that style to be clear, as others have recommended, even though they may not be Christians. But I want to hear the opinions of other Christians on this issue.

I have read a number of books on prose style, setting forth principles for clear writing, principles I am trying to follow now.

 

[Guido]

I can barely write in anything but a plain, nearly conversational style, because my rhythmic sense is broken.

 

[JonC]

I think that now I can write succinctly, although not always able to in the past. But more than desiring to do that, I want to write in a rhythmic style, which indeed I've managed to write a number of times, being unable to at other times because of severe mental blocks impeding my verbal fluency or my ear for rhythm.

How did the translators of the KJV do it? Were they simply inspired by God? Or were they men of great skill who applied numerous successive revisions to the text? I'm not going to dare comparing myself with them although I would like to, but I want to know how they obtained that literary ability?

When I say rhythm, I am not referring to a regular beat as in a song, but the kind of rhythm found in all good prose, the best of which is found in the KJV.

I also have mental blocks that keep me from coming up with ideas but I think I can probably deal with that just by keeping a journal, which I have attempted to but have hard time getting into the regular habit of doing.

I did not use any special rhythm in this post. I just tried to make it clear and not monotonousness. Obviously, it doesn't flow very well. One post I wrote here sounded worst of all. The words that most easily come to me are not the best words. That's why, when I write something that I consider rhythmic, it takes careful revision. If I try to edit as I go, not writing a rough draft, I yield no rhythm, no clarity, and no sense.

I know that repetition and variety in sentence structure are two keys to rhythm, but attention to stressed and unstressed syllables are just as important. I don't know about the length of grammatical phrases but I'm sure thinking in phrases as you write make this easier (noun phrase, verb phrase, prepositional phrase, etc, not only for their lengths but also for their stress patterns.)

I did not outline or write a rough draft of this post. I just edited as I went because I'm not aiming for rhythm or structure.

I don't know if the same Erasmus who was involved with the KJV wrote De Copia but I have that book and tried to apply it. It's about phrasing the same sentence is a many ways as possible for variety. I was trying to use it for rhythm but I did not use all the methods because I didn't think that they all would preserve the sense of a sentence if used. Also, I was having trouble understanding some of the methods. Also, in the past I used some of them without knowing what they were.

Anyway, I just wanted to start a discussion about difficulty writing and the literary skill of the KJV translators, who were the best writers, even though modern readers often have trouble understanding the KJV. I'm not trying to distract attention from the KJV being the word of God. I'm just trying to draw attention to its literary qualities and what we can learn about writing from it. But if the translators' skill had nothing to do with it, and it was the hand of God alone, maybe we shouldn't even bother imitating it because it might be a sin.

The KJV (and NKJV, for that matter) respected the literary style of the text that was being translated, for one. Sometimes you have to decide words over devices or style....but often both are used to convey a message so something is "lost in translation".

It was also written in a formal style (the culture did not speak like the KJV is written) that was used in that time (the KJV is not unique in this aspect).

The KJV is my favorite translation of the Psalms (the NASB, while perhaps more accurate in a word for word sence, does not convey the styling well).

 

[Guido]

The KJV (and NKJV, for that matter) respected the literary style of the text that was being translated, for one. Sometimes you have to decide words over devices or style....but often both are used to convey a message so something is "lost in translation".

It was also written in a formal style (the culture did not speak like the KJV is written) that was used in that time (the KJV is not unique in this aspect).

The KJV is my favorite translation of the Psalms (the NASB, while perhaps more accurate in a word for word sence, does not convey the styling well).

So the original Greek and Hebrew manuscripts -- do they sound as literary as the texts into which they were translated?

 

[Guido]

I tried to write in a rhythmic style in one of my posts just recently, an attempt that failed and resulted in loss of clarity. I don't really feel like explaining all the flaws I introduced into my post. But if I'm going to do that, I need to start with a rough draft; if I'm going to do that, I need to succeed.

Also, I never form outlines, which I should.

 

[Salty]

Just do the best you can.

 

[Bassoonery]

Spurgeon flows very well, and the KJV would have been his main source. There is perhaps an argument for one's Bible version informing one's own writing style.

I am more in awe of the writers who converted the Psalms into metrical Psalms for singing centuries ago. Having tried my hand at translating foreign hymns into English, I am amazed at how the writers maintained both meter and a rhyming scheme while still retaining the integrity of the KJV text to the extent that for many people it has been the main way by which they have learnt the Psalms. It's mind-boggling.

 

[Guido]

Sometimes, when I keep reading what I wrote over and over again, thinking that it flows when it doesn't, and afterwards try to read the KJV, I can't even read how it flows anymore.