Disobedience for the saved?

Given that John said that if we claim to have no sin we deceive ourselves, I think that it's clear that even the best of mess up sometimes. Even the smallest sin involves disobeying God and is therefore shameful.

 

Had a similar discussion recently and the other party felt that the verse:

"For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God" was in the past tense
and that we are expected to exercise power over our ability to sin now that
we're saved.

Admit I do not understand the following verse. Does anyone ?

1 John 3:9
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth
in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

 

Sherrie --

Interesting question. Since I think all of the members of this board would readily admit to sin and the practice of 1 John 1: 9, I have to ask if what you are asking means

"Could I ever do a really, really NASTY sin (caught in an XXX bookstore, public drunkeness, killing someone, etc.) that would really shame the Lord?

Is that the question?

If so, I would hope that the answer is no, and I would hope it is no because the Lord has a serious hold on my life.

Cordially in Christ and the Blessed Virgin,

Brother Ed

 

But do you think God might give you a little more room on your own, and you, even tho you are saved, and read your Bible, just could be disobedient. It does not matter how you are in your new sin. Isn't all sin the same.

Sherrie, I'm sorry I'm being so obtuse tonight. Must be the weather, but I am just not getting the point you are trying to make. Are you asking if we believe that a person still can sin and yet be a Christian, a true Christian? Well, if that is the case, then Scripture certainly seems to support that idea, for even King David, whom God called "a man after My own heart", failed horribly.

And the NT gives us a remedy for sin in 1 John 1:9, which would not have to be given if we were unable to sin after conversion.

Some will say once saved, you do not sin no more.

Yes, I have heard that (when I was a Fundamentalist) and it used to drive me crazy. I knew my heart and I knew my sins, and I kept thinking that if I really, really loved God, I would not sin against Him. I almost think such teaching to be cruel, for it certainly drove me, and some other people I knew, into a state of almost despair of our salvation and our love for God.

Well what about new sins. Aren't you always asking God to forgive you. Well then, what are you asking him to forgive, if there is no more you sinning?

That's a very good point.

Cordially in Christ and the Blessed Virgin,

Brother Ed

 

Sherrie

The more I have grown in my faith the more clearly I am able to recognize my sins and I am ashamed of these sins, both things I have done as well as things I have failed to do. Each night before I go to bed I try to reflect on these things, if you seriuosly contemplate your actions or lack there of each day it can be quite a humbling experience.

Yet asking for and receiving His forgiveness bring unbelievable joy.

Your questions here and the related ones you have posted on other topics are deceptively simple but they potentially involve several theological issues and you could spend a lot of time pondering them.

Basically justification and sanctification is a process, while God will not desert us many Christians may desert God. Hopefully all on this board have been saved, are being saved, and will be saved.

God is continuing to shower us with the graces in order that we may be perfected in Jesus Christ, we must learn to accept these gifts.

God Bless

 

6 No one who abides in Him sins; no one who sins has seen Him or knows Him. - 1 John 3:6 NASB

Christians do not sin in the sense that they do not continue in sin. Christians do mess up from time to time, but their lives are not characterized by continual, habitual sin.

17 Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come. - 2 Corinthians 5:17 NASB

A Christian has been changed. If a person has not been changed but continues in his or her life of sin, he or she does not know Christ, not having been changed by Him.

1 My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous;
2 and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world. - 1 John 2:1-2 NASB

Christ is there for us when we mess up.

 

Exactly. The I John 3 verses about Christians not sinning refer to continual, habitual, unrepentant sin. It's another one of those Greek verb tense things. If a person claims to be a Christian but is living a life filled with sin, he is not really a Christian. A person who has received the Holy Spirit is bothered by the sin within him and the acts of disobedience that result, and wants to fight back. Christians can and do sin willfully in the moment, but not as a matter of course.
There could be exceptions to this as a result of psychological trauma or organic imbalance, but in those cases the person is not fully in control of his own mind, so it's not the same thing.

 

I agree with Walguy. As a born again believer, I could not live in a lifestyle of willful sin, because I would know that I was hurting the Lord who gave His life for me.

Having said that though, there is not a day that goes by where I don't fail Him in some way. How often do I get angry at work, and harbor ill feelings for my boss/co-workers? How often do I lose my temper and say things I shouldn't say? Or do I give my best effort on the job all the time? When I don't, am I not stealing from my employer? Even though these things are not willful sin, they are sin none the less, and I still need to ask forgivness every day.

But I also keep in mind that we are a work in progress. He isn't finished with me yet. Thanks be to God! He Who began a good work will be faithful to complete it.

Love in Christ,
Larry

 

Once saved always saved...YES. Once saved always sinless...NO.

Before we are saved, we are sinners. Once we are saved, we are sinners saved by grace.

Jesus is the only perfect one. We are to strive for that perfection, but we will not make it until we get to Heaven. We are human and have feet of clay. That is why we are told to confess our sins daily.

Praise the Lord that we have ONE High Priest who we can confess our sins to and He is 'faithful and just' to forgive us our sins. No one else has the divine authority to forgive or absolve.


Sue

 

Amen to that sis!!!

We are commanded not to practice sin but God gave us provision if we sinned.

1Jn. 2:1
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not.

And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for our's only, but also for the sins of the whole world.