Do pork-eaters go to hell?!

[steaver]

Actually the readers of Isaiah would have as CONTEXT - the fact that they already knew that eating rats was a sin from Lev 11.

The CONTeXT for the readers of Isaiah would be that eating AND sacrificing them were both wrong. They would never have been so befuddled and confused as to suppose that eating rats was fine ...

But even worse - Isaiah 66:15-17 shows that the point is the FUTURE time of fire and brimstone judgment of God where those who "eat mice and destible things" (a quote of the text for a change) are burned. It never mentions the idea "some day those who eat mice will be doing just fine".

Isa 66:15 For, behold, the LORD will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.
Isa 66:16 For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many.
Isa 66:17 They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the LORD.

In Christ,

Bob

WHat you need to bold out is "They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves...." this is the context! Keep defending it brother, it just makes your argument weaker and weaker because of your obvious poor exegesis of this particular passage.

I ate a hot dog the other night, I did not hid behind any tree in the dark and I did not offer it as a sacrifice before a false god hoping it would sanctify me. Biblical exegesis please!

God Bless!

 

[BobRyan]

The idea that "everybody else that eats the abomination will be fine" is not found in the text sir.

(It is always left up to me to point out the obvious. And that is the way I like it).

Isa 66:15 For, behold, the LORD will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.
Isa 66:16 For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many.
Isa 66:17 They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the LORD.

As we SAW in Lev 11 eating rats was called an abomination before God and "detestible" -- those to whom Isaiah was writing would have already had that information.

They were NEVER told "it is ok to eat rats as long as you do not sacrifice to false gods while doing it" as you seem to want to insert.

Again - thank you for leaving it up to me to point out the obvious.

In this case they were offering sinful sacrifice AND eating abominable things - instead of just doing ONE or the other. So BOTH sins are identified - not just one of them!

Again - thank you for leaving it up to me to point out the obvious.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[music4Him]

The levitical laws were not written to just take up space. They are there because for one reason they help us to be healthy. Eating pork will not send you to hell but it might make you miserable health wise. Just like drinking wine in excess is not good for you, but 1Tim 5:23 says use "a little" for thy stomach's sake.

When will people start learning how to rightly divide the word of truth. (2Tim 2:15) :BangHead:

Very good topic xdx~ :thumbs:

 

[Amy.G]

I don't understand why people will pull out "pork eating" from the law and ignore the rest of the law. If you're going to keep part of it (dietary) you should keep all of it. Have you even read the whole Levitical law? There's a lot more to follow than just abstaining from pork. Check it out.
And don't forget about animal sacrifices.

 

[music4Him]

I see the diatary part of the Levitcal Law is there to keep us healthy. As is the disposal of body waste, body hygene, ect...
What happens if we ignore the nuggets of wisdom in the law that we can apply in the practical areas of our lives?

I figure God loves us enough to atleast help us enjoy the journey as we go through life here.

John 10:10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

 

[BobRyan]

I don't understand why people will pull out "pork eating" from the law and ignore the rest of the law. If you're going to keep part of it (dietary) you should keep all of it. Have you even read the whole Levitical law? There's a lot more to follow than just abstaining from pork. Check it out.
And don't forget about animal sacrifices.

Suppose we simply stop reading that part of the Bible -- won't that solve the problem? We need a purple-letter edition where all the "bad bible" sections are clearly identified in purple and then nobody reads it.

OR we could find a Biblically sound way for dealing with the Word of God rather than simply ignoring it or breaking it or inventing rules like "don't read Leviticus".

Recall that it is in Lev that we find the instruction "Love your neighbor as yourself" Lev 19:18. This was quoted by Christ as STILL valid and it was quoted by Him PRECROSS when all the people of God were still reading Lev and not thinking "all of God's Word has now been abolished except whatever Christ quotes".

In Christ,

Bob

 

[Amy.G]

Suppose we simply stop reading that part of the Bible -- won't that solve the problem? We need a purple-letter edition where all the "bad bible" sections are clearly identified in purple and then nobody reads it.

OR we could find a Biblically sound way for dealing with the Word of God rather than simply ignoring it or breaking it or inventing rules like "don't read Leviticus".

Recall that it is in Lev that we find the instruction "Love your neighbor as yourself" Lev 19:18. This was quoted by Christ as STILL valid and it was quoted by Him PRECROSS when all the people of God were still reading Lev and not thinking "all of God's Word has now been abolished except whatever Christ quotes".

In Christ,

Bob

Still no answer to my question. Why don't you keep ALL of the law? It is you who are trying to keep PART of it and throw out what you call the "bad bible". Which parts of the law are we to keep today? And how do you know?

 

[gekko]

why did God already distinguish between clean and unclean animals when he told Noah how many animals to take into the ark?

God made all things GOOD. did He not? so yeah - the question arises - why did God deem some things clean and unclean?

if you read it all in context - it's because it's for the sacrificial areas. some things were deemed unclean to sacrifice. some things were deemed clean to sacrifice.

and that's the end of it.

 

[BobRyan]

But your position assumes that something is "not good" if it is "not good to eat".

People are also "unclean animals" according to Lev 11 - they are "not for food" but they were still created "good" just not "good for food".

In Christ,

Bob

 

[Amy.G]

But your position assumes that something is "not good" if it is "not good to eat".

People are also "unclean animals" according to Lev 11 - they are "not for food" but they were still created "good" just not "good for food".

In Christ,

Bob

Everything was good including man, until the fall. Now, everything including man suffers because of the fall. Sin has corrupted everything.

Now Bob, will you answer my question? Why don't you keep all of the law?

 

[DQuixote]

..........and ALL of the Law (the instruction) would include the 1,000 rules, the 613 Commandments, the Ten Commandments.........

Whoa! When do we start? Who'll keep score??

 

[rbell]

Yummy.

 

[BobRyan]

..........and ALL of the Law (the instruction) would include the 1,000 rules, the 613 Commandments, the Ten Commandments.........

Whoa! When do we start? Who'll keep score??

So much Bible to toss out the window -- and so little time!!

Jews do it, Muslims do it -- so why not have Christian tossing huge sections of God's Word out the window! Come on - it is easy -- just laugh at the text and make jokes!

Once you get the hang of it - you will see just how easy it was for all those other guys to do it too!:tear:

 

[BobRyan]

Everything was good including man, until the fall. Now, everything including man suffers because of the fall. Sin has corrupted everything.

Now Bob, will you answer my question? Why don't you keep all of the law?

The Moral law?

The Law God had about clean unclean animal distinctions in Gen 6 and 7 for which we find only ONE definition in all of scripture?

The National CIVIL laws of the Theocracy?

The Ceremonial Law?

Which one are you asking about?

 

[Amy.G]

So much Bible to toss out the window -- and so little time!!

Jews do it, Muslims do it -- so why not have Christian tossing huge sections of God's Word out the window! Come on - it is easy -- just laugh at the text and make jokes!

Once you get the hang of it - you will see just how easy it was for all those other guys to do it too!:tear:

I'll ask one more time. Why don't you keep the whole law? Why won't you answer me? If what you say is true, you should have no problem explaining it.

 

[Amy.G]

The Moral law?

The Law God had about clean unclean animal distinctions in Gen 6 and 7 for which we find only ONE definition in all of scripture?

The National CIVIL laws of the Theocracy?

The Ceremonial Law?

Which one are you asking about?

All of them.

 

[BobRyan]

When I belong to a nation organized as God's Theocracy - I keep those laws. Turns out that one ended no later than 70 AD.

If I lived at the time when the ceremonies pointing to the sacrifice of Christ were still pointing and waiting for that future event - I would have offerred sacrifices. Turns out that the "once for all time" sacrifice (Heb 10) has already happened. "Christ our Passover has been slain" 1Cor 5.

Since I am "still human" I still follow the "food for humans" rule of Lev 11.

Since I am still a child of God I follow the Moral Laws.

Since I am Christian - I read the Bible - all of it.

Does that help?

In Christ,

Bob

 

[Jerome]

Genesis 9:3
Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things.

 

[BobRyan]

Apparently not rats cats dogs and bats --

But even worse - Isaiah 66:15-17 shows that the point is the FUTURE time of fire and brimstone judgment of God where those who "eat mice and destible things" (a quote of the text for a change) are burned. It never mentions the idea "some day those who eat mice will be doing just fine".

Isa 66:15 For, behold, the LORD will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.
Isa 66:16 For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many.
Isa 66:17 They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the LORD.

Apparently God DID give animals as plants - some plants will kill you - and in Lev 11 God points out - which animals are "not to be eaten" by humans.

 

[Jerome]

Lev. 11 says "the children of Israel" not "all humans".