Do pork-eaters go to hell?!

[steaver]

The idea that "everybody else that eats the abomination will be fine" is not found in the text sir.

(It is always left up to me to point out the obvious. And that is the way I like it).



Quote:
Isa 66:15 For, behold, the LORD will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.
Isa 66:16 For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many.
Isa 66:17 They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the LORD.


As we SAW in Lev 11 eating rats was called an abomination before God and "detestible" -- those to whom Isaiah was writing would have already had that information.

They were NEVER told "it is ok to eat rats as long as you do not sacrifice to false gods while doing it" as you seem to want to insert.

Again - thank you for leaving it up to me to point out the obvious.

In this case they were offering sinful sacrifice AND eating abominable things - instead of just doing ONE or the other. So BOTH sins are identified - not just one of them!

Again - thank you for leaving it up to me to point out the obvious.

In Christ,

Bob

And with that my exegesis point shines brighter! Keep up the Isaiah pork post, it always helps my argument.

God Bless!

 

[steaver]

When I belong to a nation organized as God's Theocracy - I keep those laws. Turns out that one ended no later than 70 AD.

If I lived at the time when the ceremonies pointing to the sacrifice of Christ were still pointing and waiting for that future event - I would have offerred sacrifices. Turns out that the "once for all time" sacrifice (Heb 10) has already happened. "Christ our Passover has been slain" 1Cor 5.

Since I am "still human" I still follow the "food for humans" rule of Lev 11.

Since I am still a child of God I follow the Moral Laws.

Since I am Christian - I read the Bible - all of it.

Does that help?

In Christ,

Bob

That does help. You choose to pick and choose the laws that are convenient for you to follow.

God Bless!

 

[xdisciplex]

God's NT word ended the dietary laws, it's that simple!

It did?

Act 21:25 As touching the Gentiles which believe, we have written and concluded that they observe no such thing, save only that they keep themselves from things offered to idols, and from blood, and from strangled, and from fornication.

Act 15:28 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;
Act 15:29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.

 

[BobRyan]

That does help. You choose to pick and choose the laws that are convenient for you to follow.

God Bless!

I suppose you are free to close your eyes and makup whatever you like no matter what I post. My answer was that in each case there is actually a Biblically sound response -- but your "It all is whatever I want it to be" gaming the topic is certainly understandable given your position so far.

The alternative to such a "I am not really serious about discussing this topic" answer as you have given - would be to respond substantively to each of the points raised in my post about the context and scope of the various kinds of law.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Lev. 11 says "the children of Israel" not "all humans".

same for the commandment against taking God's name in vain.

It is for all humans. You can not sidestep this issue by saying that God's people were the Hebrews in the OT not the Philistines. God STILL was "UNCHANGING" and God still "SO LOVED THE WORLD" and God STILL had MORAL LAW for mankind defining sin.

Notice that Isaiah 66 does not condemn eating rats - just for Jews. In fact in Isaiah 66 regarding the Sabbath "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to worship".

God's Law regarding sin has always applied to MANKIND.

Paul makes the same point in Romans 3 showing that ALL MANKIND is held accountable and sinners by that same law.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Originally Posted by steaver
God's NT word ended the dietary laws, it's that simple!

#1. That is man-made tradition not scripture.
#2. Peter continues to argue in the NT Acts 10 that he has NEVER eaten anything unclean and even refuses a direct command to do so as a test of faith and obedience. He then shows that the test was simply a method to direct him to evangelize gentiles - having nothing to do with a literal rat or cat sandwich.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[xdisciplex]

#2. Peter continues to argue in the NT Acts 10 that he has NEVER eaten anything unclean and even refuses a direct command to do so as a test of faith and obedience. He then shows that the test was simply a method to direct him to evangelize gentiles - having nothing to do with a literal rat or cat sandwich.

This makes sense.

 

[BobRyan]

Notice that in Acts 10 Peter never says "O No Lord for I have never shared the gospel with a Gentile" as if that was a point of faithtfulness that he was holding to as a Jew and now that God was asking for a change he was reluctant. Rather on the THE POINT of the vision Peter is "emphatic" accepting the truth of God.

But when it comes to eating rats - Peter affirms as an act of faith and obedience "O no Lord for I have NEVER eaten anything unclean". That means he never spun the teachings of Christ to mean "eat rats now".

That means he understood the symbolism of the vision about eating rats.

And when 3 times Peter relates this vision he never does so in a way that says "good news my jewish brothers - sewer rats are now a ready source of food for us Christians".

It never happens because it is simply not a Bible teaching!

in Christ,

Bob

 

[xdisciplex]

But what do you say about this, Bob?

1Co 10:25 Whatsoever is sold in the shambles, that eat, asking no question for conscience sake:
1Co 10:26 For the earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof.
1Co 10:27 If any of them that believe not bid you to a feast, and ye be disposed to go; whatsoever is set before you, eat, asking no question for conscience sake.
1Co 10:28 But if any man say unto you, This is offered in sacrifice unto idols, eat not for his sake that shewed it, and for conscience sake: for the earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof:

These verses here seem to relativize everything which was said in acts:

Act 15:29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.

This is confusing.

 

[music4Him]

1Cor 6:19-20 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

Seems logical to take care of your body and by using God's law for direction would be wise.

 

[Amy.G]

1Cor 6:19-20 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

Seems logical to take care of your body and by using God's law for direction would be wise.

Choosing to eat certain foods or not to eat them because you want to be healthy is a totally different subject than abstaining from certain foods because they are sinful. If you don't want to eat pork or shellfish that is your decision, but are you doing it for health reasons or because you're trying to follow the OT law? There are no food restrictions for NT Christians. Also, if you're trying to follow OT food laws, don't forget that certain bugs are allowable to eat. By your reasoning, they are listed as 'clean' because they are good for you. How many crickets, locusts, grasshoppers or katydids have you eaten lately?

 

[BobRyan]

Choosing to eat certain foods or not to eat them because you want to be healthy is a totally different subject than abstaining from certain foods because they are mentioned in God's Word as being wrong or where you find someone being burned in the 2nd death fire and brimstone for eating what God calls "detestible things".

I think we all agree that personnal preference is very different from open rebellion against the Word of God.

The real issue is -- are you going to read just the good bible or will you also read the so-called "Bad Bible" section of the 66 books of scripture?

How much are you really willing to blindly ignore?

In Luke 16 we have the parable of the rich man and Lazarus where the MAIN point is "If they refuse to listen to the Word of God given through Moses THEN they will not listen though someone rises from the dead".

So the question remains - SHOULD we simply color the O.T "Purple" and label it "The bad bible" or not?

If you are willing to toss out the 39 books of the OT THEN I have good news for you!! "There are no food restrictions" added in the NT!! And I have even better news for you -- "I think there is a good way to spin that into NO food restrictions allowed from God's Word the OT either".

Think about it - that might be just the thing for you... of course you have to find ways to cut-and-paste all the quotes of the OT that you find in the NT -- but eventually you will get there!

In Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

But what do you say about this, Bob?

1Co 10:25 Whatsoever is sold in the shambles, that eat, asking no question for conscience sake:
1Co 10:26 For the earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof.
1Co 10:27 If any of them that believe not bid you to a feast, and ye be disposed to go; whatsoever is set before you, eat, asking no question for conscience sake.
1Co 10:28 But if any man say unto you, This is offered in sacrifice unto idols, eat not for his sake that shewed it, and for conscience sake: for the earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof:

These verses here seem to relativize everything which was said in acts:

Act 15:29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols

I agree. Just when Acts 15 seems to have established the rule of not eating food offerred to idols (something I don't think was ever forbidden in the O.T) Paul comes along in 1Cor 8 and 10 and argues that what is offerred to idols does not reall matter in the big picture since idols are really just rocks.

I think I see his point -- do you?

But in those chapters he ALSO shows us how the issue of vegetarianism was creeping in "I will never eat meat at all if it causes my brother to sin". He was arguing that some who thought it was sin to eat meat offerred to idols (just as the Act 15 council instructed) would be defiled in their conscience if they saw "informed" Jews ignoring that restriction because they know that this is really nothing. In fact that is the ONLY detail given in all of the NT for issues related to a vegetarian diet.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[Amy.G]

Enjoy your grasshoppers Bob. Yeah, that's in the 'good' part of the Bible.

 

[BobRyan]

Ok - well if that part of the Bible is still good... I guess I have to pay attention to it.

 

[Eliyahu]

Enjoy your grasshoppers Bob. Yeah, that's in the 'good' part of the Bible.

Roasted Grasshoppers are still an expensive dainty at certain luxurious restaurants

 

[Amy.G]

Roasted Grasshoppers are still an expensive dainty at certain luxurious restaurants

I think I'll pass. Around here, they're still bugs.

 

[xdisciplex]

@ Bob

Did you answer my question if you never eat pork or if you only try to avoid it?
But what if you go for a pizza for example? Are you really able to only eat things which are absolutely 100% free from pork? What if there are a few pork molecules in the food and you are not able to remove them?

 

[Amy.G]

@ Bob

Did you answer my question if you never eat pork or if you only try to avoid it?
But what if you go for a pizza for example? Are you really able to only eat things which are absolutely 100% free from pork? What if there are a few pork molecules in the food and you are not able to remove them?

You go find the nearest Pharisee to bless it. :laugh:

 

[steaver]

(The word of Bob)...#2. Peter continues to argue in the NT Acts 10 that he has NEVER eaten anything unclean and even refuses a direct command to do so as a test of faith and obedience.

(The Word of God)...Jam 1:13Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

You would have us believe that God tempts us to sin. God did not tempt Peter to sin, Jam 1:13, Therefore what is left to conclude is that God wanted Peter to LEARN a LESSON that food and men once declared unclean was no more! And as always with Peter, God had to show him (not tempt him with sin) three times before the message sunk in.

God Bless!