Do we have Apostles today?

I had always been taught that one of the qualifications for being an Apostle was that you had to have personally seen Jesus. After reading the suggested scriptures and a few others from other references I have decided that I may have been less right than I thought I was.

I don't think we have Apostles today like they had then. Apostles had and exercised a certain amount of authority. When the main church at Jerusalem ceased and authority was decentralized to thousands of local churches it became difficult for a "commissioned individual" to exercise much authority because the local church didn't have much authority to delegate. If the term Missionary as we use it today is basically the same thing, OK, but, I don't think the term Apostle will be received because of the close association the term has with being right and with having been with Jesus. Besides we now have all the authority we need, in the Holy Scriptures.

 

I believe that there are full blown Apostles that exist in this world - that meet the criteria in much the same way Paul did

It is a great gift - but a burdensome one as well

An Apostle would not be driven to stay in the American church proper - but would be driven out to the disenfranchised, those without the gospel

Thats one of the reasons missionaries are often considered small a apostles

The only time you would see an apostle is in his infancy a full blown apostle - tends to avoid other mature Christians - since his gift is not for them

 

What an interesting explanation! Certainly brings to mind Will Campbell's ministry. Thanks for the insight!

 

Are we so afraid of the Roman Catholic claim to apostolic succession that we must limit the term "apostle" to a specific office and to specific people in the church?

Is it not possible that the term "apostle" can refer to the continuance of apostolic teaching? For example, in 2 Tim 2:2 where we read about Timothy being instructed by Paul to impart Paul's teaching to "faithful men, who shall be able to teach others also."

I see apostle as a mission as opposed to an office. It is also an office so far as the original apostles are concerned. As to number, I have no clue how many constitute the original band of Apostles, but the scriptures and all outside literature seems to indicate 12. It seems to me, it is not a question of great importance, as affecting the dissemination of the gospel and the building of the church.

Cheers,

Jim

 

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The only time you would see an apostle is in his infancy a full blown apostle - tends to avoid other mature Christians - since his gift is not for them
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I don't see anything in scripture to support the contention that an apostle would avoid mature Christians.
I would see more support for the view that the reason an "apostle" might prefer to avoid them is that they are not blown about like a reed in the wind with some new teaching.
They are not easily deceived whereas immature Christians are easier prey.
Missionaries are not considered apostles.
An apostle is one who has seen the risen Jesus.
Miracles are the sign of an apostle, not hiding in the shadows.

MR

 

I would hope that there are millions of Apostles out there, as the term correctly translates into english as "Missionary".

 

There are no apostles in the as the 12. John on the Isle OF PATMOS WAS THE LAST. THESE MEN WERE GIVEN SPECIAL MIRACLE POWERS TO ESTABLISH THE CHURCH. THESE NOW ARE GONE.NNE NOW HAS WHAT THEY HAD IN THE SENSE OF RAISIND THE DEAD, GIVING SIGHT ETC.

 

Acts 10:39-42 also indicates that the apostles must have been witnesses to the resurrection.
I don't understand why Acts 1:22 is insufficient to prove that they must have been witness to the resurrection.

That is clearly what it says.
They were chosen to be witnesses to the resurrection. Impossible if you have not seen it.

They must also be chosen by the Lord.

Matthias was chosen by lot by the Lord according to scripture.

They also must evidence miraculous powers.
See Acts 5:12 and 2 Cor. 12:12.

And in conclusion--

Revelation 21:14. "And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them twelve names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb."

There are not "millions" Ben W. There are twelve.
"The" twelve as the Bible calls them.

MR

[ January 29, 2003, 10:58 PM: Message edited by: mountainrun ]

 

Mountainrum

Invest in a concordance and look at the translation of the word Apostle, and you will find that the translation is Missionary. Of which there are millions.

As far as Acts 1:21 states yes to be a member of the original twelve you must have seen the life and ressurection of Christ. Paul, Silas, Barnabus were all Apostles who had not. So it is clear that the Apostles were expanded in the New Testament.

Acts 10:39 Luke states that they are all witnesses to the ressurected Christ. It does not say anywhere here that this is a requirement for an Apostle.

Acts 5:12 states that the Apostles did many miracles true, It does not state that it is a requirement of being an Apostle.

2Cor 12:13 states that the signs of an Apostle were established in the Corinthian Church. Further evidence of the ongoing nature of the Apostle. God saw fit to establish the signs of Apostles amongst them.

Rev 21:14 The names of the original twelve who birthed the church. Agian it does not say these are the only Apostles

2Cor 12:13 is good evidence of God raising up Apostles in the Church. Good evidence that the position is ongoing.

Also If the position of Apostle was not to be ongoing, woouldent the Bible state that after us there will be no more Apostles?

 

Ah, Bro. Robert, I think you are getting into the coming of the anti-christ. Don't you think he will have apostles as well? Of course, these would be the false prophets. That's only my opinion, but it makes sense.

With regards to Paul, I believe that he replaced Judas as an apostle. I don't believe there are still apostles today because, as a Primitive Baptist, I don't believe in missionaries. But, that's a whole new thread.

God Bless. Bro. James

 

Ben, It's Mountainrun, not Mountainrum.

First of all, the apostles of the Lamb are completely different from any others referred to as apostles by you or anyone else.
That is why their names are on the foundations and not the names of millions of others.

Now, as to Paul not having seen the Lord, I suggest you read
1st Cor.9:1.
How you have determined that the others had not seen Him, I don't know.

2 Cor. 12:12 {Not 12:13} states that the miracles that mark an apostle were done among the Corinthians, not by them. It would have been Paul who did them, an apostle.
This passage is not evidence at all that the office of apostle is ongoing.
If the miracles are signs of an apostle and the office is ongoing, where are the miracles?

I have little time for those who twist scriptures to their own beliefs.


If you find a missionary raising the dead and healing the blind, let me know and we can continue.

MR

[ February 03, 2003, 09:04 PM: Message edited by: Jim1999 ]

 

Mountainrun,

The Apostles of the Lamb are different because there names are on the foundations?

Good Assumption, But the Bible does not say that is the case. Are the Founding Elders of a church the only elders that can minister in the local church over the course of its lifetime? Absolutley not.

You want me to look at 1Cor 1:9, o.k "God is Faithful, by whom you were called into the fellowship of His Son Jesus Christ our Lord".

Paul does not fufil the requirements of Acts 10:39 that you state are the requiremnts for an Apostle. It states that "we are witnesses of ALL things which He did in both the land of the Jews and Jerusalem" How did Paul get time for this as a servant of Rome?

Regarding 2Cor 12:12 The signs of an Apostle was accomplished among them with all perseverance. Why did they have to accomplish the signs of an Apostle with Perseverance? Isnt that the way you accomplish teaching in a new believer? Hence the Corinthian Church have the signs of an Apostle Accomplished in them.

Miracles died out when the Catholic Church took control of the church. When the Evangelicals broke away they began to reappear.

Reinhardt Bonnke has seen many miracles. and Daniel Echukuwa was raised from the dead at a meeting in NIgeria. He even has a Government authorised death certificate, see the thread on him in the Baptist Forum.

Thankyou for suggesting I twist scripture and you have no time for people like that. That one sentance completley nullifies anything you have written. Go pull the plank out of your own eye. Before you attempt to pass a judgement on me. You have made plenty of assumptions in this thread. Rather than prove that the Bible says specifically that.

 

First time I've heard Will Campbell's name in years. Is he still alive?