Do we worship education?

I am not sure that education is the cause of these disasters, but you have a point about putting education on a pedestal as the cure all to society's ills.

I remember when I started out in ministry, one completed Bible College or seminary in three or four years and got out into the field. Many never returned to an educational institution. Degrees were not important. Fidelity to the word of God was.

To-day, I read about people wanting this a degree and that degree. They are after the almighty doctoral degree before they finished a master's. It is a pity?

Frankly, I recall one chap who could scarcely read and write. He finished Bible college and went out to pastor a small rural church. He was energetic, preached simply and the Lord blessed his church with growth.

There were other blokes who had academic talents, but they weren't worth salt in the ministry, and they are nowhere near a pulpit to-day. Maybe the church is better off for that.

It is time we set our priorities, as you have suggested in your post.

Cheers,

Jim

 

If you want a JOB get an education!

 

I'm with Jim on this one!!! I remember when I was young----folks would tell me

"You need that High School diploma!"

So I got one!!

Then others started tellin' me

"You need a college degree!"

So I got one!

Then folks started tellin' me

"You need that Master's degree!"

So I got one of those!!

Then I got another one!

Finally---there seems to be a fad among preachers to get that "Doctor" in front of their name!!! Like "You just can't preach without one!" and "Buddy---if you want a big time church---they(Search Committees) won't look at 'cha without you having "Dr." in front of your name!!

I think its silly!!!

Then again--I know preachers who "say" they hold doctorate degees---but I know for a fact they don't---but they say they do---and thats cheap too!!!

 

Point in question: I can put the fancy degrees behind my name and from a reputable university. My Masters and Doctorate both come from a theologically liberal school. Now what value would they have to an evangelical church? They were valuable to me in my academic career of teaching, but my undergraduate diplomas and degree meant far more. So, now where are we in the degree department?

I still like to quote this little ditty:

There was a laddie at college named Breeze,
Weighed down with B.A.'s and B.D.'s.
Said the doctor, "It's plain,
You are killing yourself by degrees."

Cheers,

Jim

 

Hey, with a connection to someone higher up in many 'institutions', or for 50-100 bucks and finding the the right web site, you can have that D.D. to have after your name. Two caveats, however, on the 50 buck vs. 100 buck site - Make sure that you check the spelling on the paper from the 50 dollar joint. 'Cause unlike the higher priced one, it will be on paper rather than on a 'sheepskin'. :laugh: :laugh:

Ed

 

Where you reckon all those plumbers and electricians learned those skills? Whether through formal education or through on the job mentoring they got educations the same as the doctor down the street. Seems you just don't like college graduates. Maybe we should all just be a buncha ignorant hicks. That would really spread the Gospel.



ed‧u‧ca‧tion  [ej-oo-key-shuhn] –noun

1.the act or process of imparting or acquiring general knowledge, developing the powers of reasoning and judgment, and generally of preparing oneself or others intellectually for mature life.

2.the act or process of imparting or acquiring particular knowledge or skills, as for a profession.

3.a degree, level, or kind of schooling: a university education.

4.the result produced by instruction, training, or study: to show one's education. 5.the science or art of teaching; pedagogics.

 

Men

Ya'll have done a great job!

But, might I add . . . if all they want is Ph.D. after their name, or to be called doctor - all they have to do is get a legal name change . . .



Like:
Doctor Wayne, Ph.D.
Doctor Blackbird, Ph.D.
Doctor Jim, Ph.D.

We can even add an esquire or two . . . King might be a little bit much.

 

The quest for degrees and certification is not limited to ministers. As our society has grown we have lost the personal relationship we had with others and education or certification is often used as a measuring stick for your expectations of service. Without proof of what they can do or what they know many craftsmen get short changed.

When you call that plummer or electrician do you call someone with a contractors license? Most plumbers and electricians now have at least associates degrees. Your car mechanic may be "certified" and a graduate of many hours of instruction. The plane you ride in and the car you drive are put together by certified people with degrees and skills. Try to build a house without a certified electrician and see if they will turn the power on for you. See if you can get a septic permit without a certified soil engineer signing off on the drainage. See if you can get homowners insurance without a certified building inspection.

I have had many craftsmen work for me over the years and I encouraged all of them to get their certification and contractors licenses. Skills will not translate into dollars unless they can be documented and checked. If two welders are looking for work and both posses the same level of skill welding, but one has an associates degree and is a certified welder with a state certificate to weld on structures and pressure vessels, and the other has years of experience but no certification. Which one do you think will go to work for the most money?

Why should ministers be any different?

 

Would you go to a doctor who had never been to medical school or had allowed his medical license to expire? Would you go to a dentist that had never been to dental school? Why would we not hold pastors to a higher standard.

Oh I know years ago we went to the herb doctor who lived up the holler and he made us all better with nothing but roots and berries. The barber pulled your sore tooth when he cut your hair and stump water got rid of warts.

No thanks, I will take advantage of the educated professionals we have today.

 

Back to the stated topic of this thread

No, I don't think that at all. I think we have attacks at schools because criminals know that they are for the most part "gun free" zones and they have a better chance of getting away with it. The guy who shot the Amish girls figured he would have longer with the girls because there would be no phones to call police. Anywhere we try to restrict the freedom to bear arms we put out an open invitation for criminals. We might as well advertise, "unarmed victims available here."

 

The chap who did the shooting was on the phone all the time he held the children. This shooting had nothing to do with the general state of gun violence in schools. The fact he had three guns (I believe) is evidence that the freedom of bearing arms was directly a cause. He had a psycho-societal illness or condition.

We don't need guns. A hunting rifle, ok, but we don't need designed killing machines in a so-called civilized society...we need more civilization.

Cheers,

Jim

 

Jim

If I may, we need Jesus more than we need civilization . . . civilization brought us the guns . . . IMHO.



Wayne

 

I have never seen God use ignorance. Satan often uses poor theology. Having said that God cannot has never used laziness to get the job done.

 

I think it's the opposite! There is an incredible dumbing down of Christianity going on today, and I've seen it ever since I became a Christian. Now what counts are church growth (numbers), not offending "seekers," feelings, and experiences. This is the big thing today. What I see is anti-reason and anti-intellect in the church.

Reason, intelligence, and logic come from God Himself. He gave us brains. He told us to love him with all our mind and heart. The Bible is written in words, which is based on logica and reason and requires intelligence to read. '

What is needed in the church today is to focus on objective truth, reason, and logic as we apply the faith and God's word. But the trend is totally opposite that!!!

 

Is education bad?

No.

Do we (as a whole) worship education?

Yes. (Particularly the degrees.)

People look down on those who do manual labor, even if it's a choice.

People will assume that because you have a degree that you're smarter or better educated.

However, the secular world is learning (and hopefully, the church will follow) that sometimes degrees are much less important than "education". I have a friend who is a headhunter for Fortune 500 companies, and he has a reputation for finding quality, undegreed employees. He is also good at weeding out the worthless degrees. Many colleges are now more worried about numbers than they are education.

Many churches will not even consider a pastor unless he has degrees, often requiring a very high degree. However, I know someone who was turned down for a pastorate who was more "educated" than the pastor they hired, but he had no degree.

Yes, we worship education as a whole, but that doesn't mean that education is bad in and of itself.

 

Dr. Michael DeBakey, the reknowned heart surgeon almost failed out of high school....He almost failed his pre-med....come to think of it, he almost failed his first year of medicine...........Thank God he made it in the end. Just read about his accomplishments in heart surgery over the years............His testimony, not mine.

Cheers,

Jim

 

This is a very broad statement. Can you provide examples to explain what you mean by this?

How do you know when someone is not depending on God?