Do you know Paul Washer?

[xdisciplex]

He has a shocking sermon at sermonaudio where he speaks at a church and then says that most of the people there will be in hell in 100 years and the teenagers were totally shocked. Washer seems to think that this is okay because the title of the sermon was something like "Shocking Youth Message Stuns Hearers"
Do you think it is good to shock people? He even said that most likely he will never be invited back. I wonder if this is helpful or not. Even if you scare the people and they show a reaction then it's also the question if it will last. People are also shown scary movies about lung cancer from smoking cigarettes and later on they still smoke. Somehow the sermon also scared me. When you listen to such stuff then you feel as if nothing is really safe and you cannot really know if you'll go to heaven or not.
http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?currSection=sermonsspeaker&sermonID=52906154239

 

[DQuixote]

At some point in your life you asked Jesus Christ to be your Savior. He became Lord, but you are endlessly wrestling with him about that. Stop wrestling with him. He is your Savior, get out of the way. He wants to be Lord. He calms doubts and fears.

If you are struggling with unrealistic fears there are several medications available. It is no sin to take meds.

http://www.lesfeldick.org/lesqa.html

 

[xdisciplex]

I would also take meds if I knew that they will help. But I don't know if it's not a bit unrealistic to expect that a pill will fix this entirely. Maybe this is simply a part of my personality. There are people which are simply this way. Or did Thomas also simply suffer from an imbalance?

 

[Dustin]

I like Paul Washer. He's young but reminds me of the old school turn or burn Southern Baptists.

Very biblical and very fresh. We need preaching like this today.


My favorite moment in his sermon:

He says something about people in this country being fake about following Christ. And about how we should all strive to follow Christ, or something to that effect. The kids in the crowd cheer, and clap, and shout amen.


And then he says, "I don't know what you're cheering for, I'm talking about you."

Then you could hear a pin drop.


Priceless.


Soli Deo Gloria,
Dustin

 

[rbell]

Do you think it is good to shock people?

Good question. What are the motives for the shocking?

• Unfortunately, some do it to emotionally manipulate, so as to increase the "number of decisions."
• Some do it because it brings them recognition and feeds their ego.
• Others do it because they enjoy the power of manipulating a crowd.
• Still others do it out of a misguided sense that they have to be "extreme" in order to "get through" to their audience (particularly true in youth ministry circles).

Sometimes, the word from God, or God's Word itself, is shocking. And that shouldn't be glossed over. But when we have something shocking to say, we should...

• Check our motives. Is this about me, or God?
• Are your "shocking statements" necessary? Are they likely to be misunderstood by the hearers?
• Does God want you to say what you're saying in a shocking way? Or will the shock value stuff simply draw attention to itself, and away from God?
• Will your statements cause a weaker brother to stumble?
• Is what you're saying truthful?

I'll probably think of more later.

 

[saturneptune]

He has been to our church a few times, and will leave the comments at that.

 

[Dustin]

He has been to our church a few times, and will leave the comments at that.

Why is that?

 

[xdisciplex]

Good thoughts, rbell.
The question is wether the "turn or burn" stuff is really necessary or wether it's just something like a gimmick or a style. What I think is a bit strange is that Washer also titles his sermons in a way which makes it look as if he thinks that it's cool when you can say of yourself that you shocked everybody and that you were not invited back, as if this automatically means that you're the real deal while they are fake christians. How can Washer simply judge the whole crowd? How can he possibly know if they are all fake christians or not? Did he talk to every single one of them? Did he watch them for 1 month before he preached or what did he do to know that they are not real?

 

[Dustin]

Good thoughts, rbell.
The question is wether the "turn or burn" stuff is really necessary or wether it's just something like a gimmick or a style. What I think is a bit strange is that Washer also titles his sermons in a way which makes it look as if he thinks that it's cool when you can say of yourself that you shocked everybody and that you were not invited back, as if this automatically means that you're the real deal while they are fake christians. How can Washer simply judge the whole crowd? How can he possibly know if they are all fake christians or not? Did he talk to every single one of them? Did he watch them for 1 month before he preached or what did he do to know that they are not real?

xd,
I think you're a bit off. Paul Washer is a missionary. He's been to places where people die for professing faith in Christ, where people are persecuted everyday for naming the name of Christ as Lord and Savior.

Most of us here in the United States have no idea what that is like. Most churches here would crumble under such persecution. People seem to forget that as far as nations go, we're pampered. Compared to most other places, we've got it made. I'm including myself here. The hurricanes in 2005 reminded me of exactly how good we have it.

What he was doing in that sermon was pointing that out. He was faithfully expounding the Bible. There is nothing wrong with doing that. Peter had no regret faithfully preaching the Gospel messege at Pentecost. Men were pricked in thier heart when they heard it. That is an undeniably GOOD thing. Stephen, the first Christian martyr, had no problem plainly and faithfully speaking the truth to those who accused him. What happened? It enraged the people and they stoned him.

What Peter and Stephen and Paul Washer were doing was not preaching what people wanted to hear, but what they NEEDED to hear. They were faithfully preaching the Word of God. It works ultimately for the good of the people who listen and are pricked in thier heart. A person who thinks they're not doing anything wrong cannot repent of doing wrong. They have to be told what thier condition is Biblically.

Paul Washer preached a Biblical messege faithfully. It's not a gimmick or some cool thing he likes to do. I also doubt that he's the one who posts his sermons or writes up the descriptions on sermonaudio. Even if it was, I think it is to get people to listen to the actual messege, because it needs to be heard, not to have it be the most downloaded sermon on there.

Come to think of it, it is. It past Johnathan Edwards' "Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God" a while back.

I still think that we need more messeges like this.

Soli Deo Gloria,
Dustin

 

[rbell]

Let me also clear something up...my comments were to xdx's question about "shocking people;" I do not know Mr. Washer and haven't yet listened to his stuff.

 

[Tom Butler]

The message he preached is availible on the internet. I think you can find it at sermonaudio.com and his own website. Don't have the URL at my fingertips, but Google Paul Washer or Heartcry Missions and you can find it.

I've heard the sermon. It was thorougly Biblical and meaty as all get-out.

The fact that his message shocked some says a lot about what a lot of folks are used to hearing preached. And it definitely was not the sermon you usually expect to hear at a youth rally.

Listen to the sermon, then come back and comment on it.

Let's put it this way. Paul Washer doesn't play church.

 

[Amy.G]

XDX, I have been listening to a Paul Washer sermon and you will do well to listen to him as well. He preaches solid Christianity, not feel good stuff. This guy is the real deal.

 

[Baptist Believer]

He says something about people in this country being fake about following Christ. And about how we should all strive to follow Christ, or something to that effect. The kids in the crowd cheer, and clap, and shout amen.

And then he says, "I don't know what you're cheering for, I'm talking about you."

How would he know if his audience was "fake" about following Christ? He's making an enormous assumption.

Then you could hear a pin drop.

Sure, he just recklessly called them hypocrites.

While there may be many in the room who are hypocrites, most teens (and adults) today have not been discipled and honestly don't know how to follow Christ in transformation and power. We can't expect teens to honestly overcome sinful temptations unless we show them how to connect to the life and power of Christ. Nor can we expect them to bear the fruit of the Spirit unless we show them how to do what Jesus did.

Priceless.

I would say he is merely condemning them without solid information or compassion.

 

[Amy.G]

How would he know if his audience was "fake" about following Christ? He's making an enormous assumption.


Sure, he just recklessly called them hypocrites.

While there may be many in the room who are hypocrites, most teens (and adults) today have not been discipled and honestly don't know how to follow Christ in transformation and power. We can't expect teens to honestly overcome sinful temptations unless we show them how to connect to the life and power of Christ. Nor can we expect them to bear the fruit of the Spirit unless we show them how to do what Jesus did.


I would say he is merely condemning them without solid information or compassion.

You really should listen to the sermon before you make these statements. You are also condemning him with solid information.

 

[xdisciplex]

XDX, I have been listening to a Paul Washer sermon and you will do well to listen to him as well. He preaches solid Christianity, not feel good stuff. This guy is the real deal.

I listened to it and it also scared me. Of course I cannot compare to those christians in Africa or other countries which are persecuted. They are much more hardcore. They're on a whole different level than me. I'm also not dumb and I know that there are christians which are much more determined than me. But this is something which you cannot simply produce. It's like comparing a teenager who grew up in a ghetto to the son of Bill Gates for example. It's not a question that the ghetto guy is much tougher than Bill Gates' son. And even if Bill Gates' son tried to copy the ghetto guy and tried to be as tough as him it wouldn't work. These are things which you cannot simply produce.

 

[Dustin]

How would he know if his audience was "fake" about following Christ? He's making an enormous assumption.


Sure, he just recklessly called them hypocrites.

While there may be many in the room who are hypocrites, most teens (and adults) today have not been discipled and honestly don't know how to follow Christ in transformation and power. We can't expect teens to honestly overcome sinful temptations unless we show them how to connect to the life and power of Christ. Nor can we expect them to bear the fruit of the Spirit unless we show them how to do what Jesus did.


I would say he is merely condemning them without solid information or compassion.

The sermon was preached at one of those week long youth rallys. So I would assume he knew what he was talking about, as he had been there for a few days, talking to the kids, youth pastors, etc.

The reason he came down so hard on those kids was because he cared for thier souls, not just to make a reputation for himself. In the sermon he was talking about one of the biggest problems in churches today, the kids were hearing messeges that just excited an emotional response. Just getting them psyched up. He talked about how he had heard many such sermons that week. He was preaching what they needed to hear instead of some messege to get a psyched up emotional response.

At any rate, you should actually listen to the sermon before you say such things.

Sermonaudio.com has the audio, video, and the transcribed versions of it. You can watch, listen, read or download for free. I know people who listened to that sermon and downloaded it and burned copies to give to relatives and members of thier church.

After listening to it 3 times, watching once, and reading back over it, I can't say anything but Paul Washer was very genuine at the very least. It is a very biblical messege, shocking as it might be, that we all need to listen to. We need more people like him preaching in our churches, whether it be a Baptist church or a Reformed church.

Soli Deo Gloria,
Dustin

 

[Dustin]

I listened to it and it also scared me. Of course I cannot compare to those christians in Africa or other countries which are persecuted. They are much more hardcore. They're on a whole different level than me. I'm also not dumb and I know that there are christians which are much more determined than me. But this is something which you cannot simply produce. It's like comparing a teenager who grew up in a ghetto to the son of Bill Gates for example. It's not a question that the ghetto guy is much tougher than Bill Gates' son. And even if Bill Gates' son tried to copy the ghetto guy and tried to be as tough as him it wouldn't work. These are things which you cannot simply produce.

Exactly, it is a thing only God can produce.

 

[xdisciplex]

Exactly, it is a thing only God can produce.

But not all people are the same. Some christians go to poor countries and work as missionaries and they can handle that but others, like me, would most likely freak out and get a nervous breakdown.

OT question:

Is anybody here who regularly listens to way of the master radio?
Have you ever heard that either Ray,Todd or Kirk talked to an unbeliever or agnostic and actually convinced him?
I have heard a few episodes and somehow it is always the same. They more or less simply argue with unbelievers and never come to a satisfying end. In one episode Ray talked to a muslim and the muslim had his opinion and Ray couldnt convince him, which was pretty expectable, and then Todd simply hang up because he couldnt take it anymore. What is this good for? Arguing with unbelievers and then either saying something like "Okay, thank you" or simply hanging up seems totally senseless to me. It is interesting to hear them fight each other and Ray,Kirk and Todd are pretty good at arguing but I never see them convince anybody it is basically simply about who wins the debate and who has the better arguments.
And then always the same "ever told a lie" method. They make it look as if using this "ever told a lie" stuff is the miracle weapon to convert everybody but it is not.

 

[Dustin]

OT question:

Is anybody here who regularly listens to way of the master radio?
Have you ever heard that either Ray,Todd or Kirk talked to an unbeliever or agnostic and actually convinced him?
I have heard a few episodes and somehow it is always the same. They more or less simply argue with unbelievers and never come to a satisfying end. In one episode Ray talked to a muslim and the muslim had his opinion and Ray couldnt convince him, which was pretty expectable, and then Todd simply hang up because he couldnt take it anymore. What is this good for? Arguing with unbelievers and then either saying something like "Okay, thank you" or simply hanging up seems totally senseless to me. It is interesting to hear them fight each other and Ray,Kirk and Todd are pretty good at arguing but I never see them convince anybody it is basically simply about who wins the debate and who has the better arguments.
And then always the same "ever told a lie" method. They make it look as if using this "ever told a lie" stuff is the miracle weapon to convert everybody but it is not.

I don't listen to Way Of The Master much anymore, because of the ways they go about evangilizing sometimes. It's neat to listen to the open air preaching, but after you've heard the "are you a good person" method 500 times, it gets a little old. I wonder if they've ever thought of changing the forumula a little, get even more biblical with it. I like the way they use the Law, which is very biblical, but it falls short in other areas (too man centered).

In the book of Acts, Paul was on Mars Hill preaching the Gospel to all the Athenian philosophers, and when he got to the resurrection, they didn't want to hear anymore. Sometimes people aren't receptive. But, the Bible also says that some people who were on Mars Hill believed, so Paul's efforts weren't in vain.

God's Word never returns void.


Soli Deo Gloria,
Dustin

 

[saturneptune]

Why is that?

I believe my post said I will leave it at that.