Do you think all people which never heard about Jesus automatically go to hell?

[Hope of Glory]

The Three Stooges had an encounter with King Hottentot once. I also think that Batman did.

If you've seen them, you get the stereotypical picture that is being made here.

 

[webdog]

HP: Ro 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

I suppose that is about as clear of a text as I can find. It satisfies my mind anyway as to whether or not all have heard. Maybe I am just satisfied easily.

Job 38:31 Canst thou bind the sweet influences of Pleiades, or loose the bands of Orion?
Job 38:32 Canst thou bring forth Mazzaroth (zodiac) in his season? or canst thou guide Arcturus with his sons?
Job 38:33 Knowest thou the ordinances of heaven? canst thou set the dominion thereof in the earth?
Job 38:34 Canst thou lift up thy voice to the clouds, that abundance of waters may cover thee?
Job 38:35 Canst thou send lightnings, that they may go, and say unto thee, Here we are?
Job 38:36 Who hath put wisdom in the inward parts? or who hath given understanding to the heart?

Rev 14:6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,

Here's two ways the Gospel is proclaimed...neither one dealing with man.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

WD: Here's two ways the Gospel is proclaimed...neither one dealing with man.

HP: First, the passage in Job says nothing that I can find about ‘the gospel being dispensed.’ Does not the NT clearly imply that without a preacher one will not hear and be able to respond to the gospel?

As for the passage in Revelations, the ‘angel’ spoken of could be nothing more than an unusual season of grace poured out upon the earth in which the gospel, by whatever means God chooses, including men, radio, TV, and or the Internet, is rapidly spread, could it not? Scripture clearly indicates that God ordained man to carry forth His message of salvation. Although these efforts are supported by and enhanced I am certain by angelic activity, it does not mean that angels alone are necessarily the only means used in the verse quoted.

 

[webdog]

Does not the NT clearly imply that without a preacher one will not hear and be able to respond to the gospel?

Angels have preached in the OT and NT...

As for the passage in Revelations, the ‘angel’ spoken of could be nothing more than an unusual season of grace poured out upon the earth in which the gospel, by whatever means God chooses, including men, radio, TV, and or the Internet, is rapidly spread, could it not?

I don't think it could. Every time an angel proclaims anything in the Bible, it's in a man's form.

Scripture clearly indicates that God ordained man to carry forth His message of salvation.

I agree He has ordained us. But we also see Him ordaining angels to do His will, too.

Although these efforts are supported by and enhanced I am certain by angelic activity, it does not mean that angels alone are necessarily the only means used in the verse quoted.

I agree they are not the only means. My point was that the argument is made on this thread that there are some areas of the earth that man hasn't gone to yet to evangelize, therefore some men will die without ever hearing the Gospel. I added these to show that God can spread the Gospel to whomever...wherever, in spite of man's efforts.

 

[2 Timothy2:1-4]

Christ said He is the only way to heaven. there is no evidence that anyone ever perishes without the gospel. This is assumed and not proven.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

2Tim: Christ said He is the only way to heaven. there is no evidence that anyone ever perishes without the gospel. This is assumed and not proven

.

HP: Where is your Scriptural evidence to support your notion?

It would seem to me that the Apostle Paul made the case that some indeed would not hear the gospel. He mentioned that those that have not the law would be judged without the law. If they have not the law, how could they have had the gospel given to them?

If you are going to take this position, you would have to also conclude that a preacher has been sent to all, for no one can hear according to Scripture, unless one is sent and they hear.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Can anyone on this list, set forth one example in which the gospel message has been actually carried to a human by an angelic messeger from either Scripture or the experience of anyone?

We know that an angel told of the coming Messiah, but that is not the gospel in and of itself is it?

 

[webdog]

I supplied the Scripture already, but you just dismissed it. Would it really help to supply more? Seems like your mind is made up.
Gospel means "good news", so yes an angel proclaiming the coming Messiah is doing just that...sharing the Gospel.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

WD: I supplied the Scripture already, but you just dismissed it.

HP: I did not think I dismissed it, I just felt that you are reading into the Scriptures you set forth more than can be rightfully read into them.

 

[amity]

In our times due to the media and the high technology christian can even reach huge numbers people in Africa and other countries but what about 1000 years ago? What about those which lived in countries or continents where nobody had every come to preach about Jesus? Does this mean that millions of people went to hell without having had a chance?
How do you explain this to an unbeliever? I'm afraid he'll simply say that this isn't fair and that such a God is evil.

No, of course people who never hear the gospel are not condemned based on that fact. If Christ died for their sins they are saved. If not, they aren't. Same as everyone else!

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Amity: No, of course people who never hear the gospel are not condemned based on that fact. If Christ died for their sins they are saved. If not, they aren't. Same as everyone else!

HP: Are you sure you want to pin the rap of sin and its punishment on our Fair, Just, Loving Heavenly Father, and making Him out to be a respecter of persons?

Christ not only died for the sins of the whole world, but is a propitiation for the sins of the whole world, not just the elect.
1Jo 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

 

[Mike4334]

Hell deserved for all

Yes, even people who do hear the gospel and accepted it deserve hell. I say this because this is what they deserve. I do not imply this is what they receive.

It is by the punishment of "Him who knew no sin but was made sin" on the cross that we don't get what we deserve. It a principle called grace. Don't ever forget it.

The bible is clear that all people were condemned under sin. All Christians would be condemned under sin if it was not for God gracious action. Our conversion in and of itself doesn't merit freedom from God's judgement, only Christ taking sin upon himself on the cross for us does. People need to move their understanding of Christ to this end. Faith is only the means that God appointed to administer this grace.

 

[Mike4334]

Christ not only died for the sins of the whole world, but is a propitiation for the sins of the whole world, not just the elect.
1Jo 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

I don't think i need to pull out the Bible to say that hell is a real place and people go there.

If you disagree, maybe you can take it up with the World Court. Certainly, everyone isn't voting. I do need to pull out dictionary to prove world has many meanings. I might then in the height of arrogance prove that I am still a worldly creature. That is a creature with the quality of everybody everywhere, without exception. Forgive me, if I have caused you some offense. I am a fallen creature within this world. I must somehow work out how to love the world while not doing so, like God does. It is hard unless of course world has multiple meanings.

Oh yeah, the 'so' in John 3:16 in Greek refers to the fashion that God loves the world. Not extent, although I accept it to be true also. :godisgood:

 

[BobRyan]

HP: Having an influence via the Holy Spirit and hearing the gospel message is two completely different issues. There is not one solitary Scripture that states or indicates that all have or all will have the opportunity to hear the gospel.

Romans 1 "The INVISIBLE attributes of God being CLEARLY SEEN" by the pagans who know nothing of the Bible or of our Creator "SEEN through the things that HAVE BEEN MADE so that they are without excuse".

Roman 10 "Surely they have never heard HAVE they? Indeed they HAVE!"

 

[Melanie]

No.....if they have not had the Grace to Hear the Word of God but have live a naturalistic good life....then so God will judge them:godisgood:

 

[webdog]

It is hard unless of course world has multiple meanings.

Oh yeah, the 'so' in John 3:16 in Greek refers to the fashion that God loves the world.

Actually "world" in John 3:16 is kosmos...which means universe, so the fashion and extent coincide with one another.

 

[AAA]

In our times due to the media and the high technology christian can even reach huge numbers people in Africa and other countries but what about 1000 years ago? What about those which lived in countries or continents where nobody had every come to preach about Jesus? Does this mean that millions of people went to hell without having had a chance?
How do you explain this to an unbeliever? I'm afraid he'll simply say that this isn't fair and that such a God is evil.

I believe that all un-believers will NOT be saved and I believe that all believers will be saved. And yes every one has a chance to be saved, God can reveal HIS son to anyone that HE so choses...

GOD will have mercy upon whom He will have mercy!

 

[BobRyan]

2Peter 3 "God is NOT willing that ANY should perish but that ALL should come to repentance".

 

[AAA]

2Peter 3 "God is NOT willing that ANY should perish but that ALL should come to repentance".

AMEN!

It's so sad to see other (NOT you) people try to refute this SCRIPTURE...

 

[Brother Randall]

Are you saying that if a person gets saved or not depends on humans because if we mess it up and do not make it to preach the gospel to everybody then those will go to hell?
Boy, then I think you should better hurry because millions are dying and what are you doing!? You are sitting at home in front of your computer instead of being on the streets and warning the people to repent.

Yes, that's what it means.