Does Freewill stop at salvation?

This is like saying you have free will to kill someone, then you have free will to unkill that person. Justification is a done deal.

 

The whole debate of freewill is to get Salvation. After you get it why worry about it anymore.:wavey:

 

Because, if it is up to you to get it, then it is up to you to keep it. In which case, you would certainly lose it.

peace to youraise:

 

Now you putting words in my mouth. I believe in a strong
God who is able to save me if I will believe and keep me until the end as the Scripture says. I go by the Scriptures. I could care less what men say for if I yet seek to please men then I should not be a servant of God.:sleeping_2:

 

webdog,

When it comes to salvation, are you saying that we kill our sin nature?

Joseph Botwinick

 

I believe in Free Will but I don't believe you have free will to come to God. The Bible teaches us that the Spirit has to draw us. I don't think that one can wake up and say "I'm going to get saved today."

I don't want to get any deeper than that because it always gets ugly on here and I don't want that. I have found that most of the time when the debate of eternal security versus free will comes up both sides seem to miss understand the other.

 

Course, this would all be like saying that Abraham could "back out of" his covenant with God. 'Cause that is what we are IN when we receive Christ as Savior.

No, no saved one day, backing out the next. God GIVES repentance, faith, security, gifts, eternal life, etc. And if we BELIEVE something and it is then "proven" to us ("Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things believed."), then why would we anyway??

"Backing out" is a silly premise to beging with.

skypair

 

We said NO Dale what part of NO do you not understand?

 

This is false. Did you read my response? If you kill someone, you have the freedom to not kill that person. Once it is done (as is with justification), it's done. You can't unkill a person, and you can't be unjustified. Very conistent.

 

I never mentioned sin nature. It's an analogy. Both are permanent.

 

Webdog,

Would you please clarify so that I don't misrepresent you? What exactly is it that you believe is done with justification and how does that relate with your analogy of killing someone?

Thanks,

Joseph Botwinick

 

In response to the OP (if you believe in freewill to choose God, do you not believe in freewill to get out of it?), I was only showing that a freewill decision to do something does not necessarily mean the freewill is there to undo it. I believe justification is an event. When we are seald by the Blood of Christ, we are sealed.

 

Would you agree with me that the reason we need justification is because of our sin nature which leaves us spiritually dead and hopeless? Would you further agree with me that justification is the means by which there is a spiritual rebirth, or how God brings us back to spiritual life? Or, do you think that justification is where God kills the sin nature? I think I understand what you are trying to say, but I want to make sure.

Joseph Botwinick

 

Yes, I agree with that. I don't believe the sin nature is killed off (the killing analogy was only for comparison, I could have used rape, eating, anything that once the task is completed, it cannot be undone).

 

Well, people jump out of planes all the time. I like to use the analogy of a family. Once you are born into a family, you are a member of that family. You can sever ties with the other people in the family, but severing the ties does not cause you to stop being related by birth to the other members of the family. Once you are a member of God's family, you have the free will to make choices about your obedience to God, but you cannot choose to not be a member of the family, and God will deal with you as a father does, regarding your choices of disobedience.