Does God bluff?

Does God threaten people to move them to repentance? Why would God do that? Is the "effectual calling" not enough to bring someone to repentance, so God must lie to people telling them that he would do something that he wouldn't ever do?

In short, does God bluff us?

Do all the Calvinists on this board believe this or has PTW stepped away from the Calvinistic orthadoxy once again? </font>[/QUOTE]Bill, I would like to extend my hand to you to join the rest of us in reality. If I say to my son to clean his room or he will be spanked, then that is a legitimate promise that can be averted if obedience is what follows.

So, God threatened to wipe out the Ninevites. However, through Jonah's preaching (and their repentance), God did not wipe that generation out.

Any more bogus generalities that don't make sense?

 

Considering the distance, you must have REALLY long arms, otherwise you're just bluffing.

Mr. Bill, EVERY threat God makes and does not fulfill is a bluff from the perspective of perfect foreknowledge. From the perspective of God's truth, however, it is not a bluff. If it were possible for people NOT to respond to the threat in the way God intends, then God would fulfill the threat.

To use the example by PTW, if I threaten my son with a spanking if he does not clean his room -- knowing full well that the threat of a spanking will motivate him to clean it -- then in one sense it is a bluff, because I know the threat will accomplish the desired result. In another sense it is not a bluff, because if he didn't clean his room, he really would have gotten a spanking.

Anyway, I recommend you pack a few years' worth of snacks for your trip.

 

Have you considered your assumption here? Judging from PTW and Nepetrely's posts I believe they understand what this statement is assuming. Do you?

Bro. Dallas

 

My perspective on this is found in Jeremiah 18:5-10

I don't see them as idle threats - I see them remarkably similar to the Calvinists on this matter.

 

Bill, I would encourage you to reject Open Theism. It is a heresy that no true believer holds to. Keep studying.

 

I know several true believers who are open theists. Who are you to say who is saved and who is not?

 

I know several true believers who are open theists. Who are you to say who is saved and who is not? [/QB]</font>[/QUOTE]I will turn that same statement upon you.
Who are you to decide who is a true beleiver.

 

Because God communicates to human beings in a language they can understand, and because the threat is true. As I said, if my son didn't clean his room, he'd get spanked. That truth doesn't change just because I know the threat will motivate him to clean his room.

This question doesn't make any sense at all. You've mixed unrelated concepts together in order to create a problem that doesn't exist.

For one thing, to stand as testimony against them when they disobey. The Bible even phrases it exactly that way, and does so many times.

You are misquoting me and misrepresenting my argument. In fact, I said that God is the ultimate cause of everything.

If you controlled reality, that might mean something.

No. I agree that God is not the direct cause. God is the ultimate cause of everything. Trace everything back to the original cause and you get God. So by creating the boy with perfect foreknowledge that disobedience would be the consequences of all God's decisions means God ultimately foreordained that it would happen.

This is an argument based on your conclusion that the threat did not motivate the child to clean his room. As support for this conclusion you have offered this remarkable and comprehensive collection of evidence for the premise: "I say no."

Anything you extrapolate from that premise carries about as much weight as the premise itself. None.

The rest simply continues from there, and since it is a premise without any substance, there's no point in addressing it.

 

Scott, true believers don't redefine God. No, O.T. is an idolatrous theology. No true believer holds to it.

I also have to say that it is just so weird for an arminian to be pro-Open Theism. What with arminians being so saturated with Scriptural arguments.

 

Bill, I would encourage you to do a study on the purpose of warning passages. If I told you, you would not listen. Study it for yourself. Just don't study it the same way you studied calvinism.

 

So you are sure that you have the 100% correct version of understanding God. Are you willing to risk your eternal salvation on that? What if the Arminians are right? What saves us is the blood of Christ, not whether we are Calvinist, Arminian, or even Open Theist.

i don't think Open Theism is correct, mind you. But I'm not willing to go on record as saying that anyone who is an open theist is going to Hell.

 

They've confessed with their mouth that Jesus is Lord. They believe in their heart that Jesus was raised from the dead. They are showing fruits of their salvation. I'm just going by what the Word says, unlike Preach the Word.

 

I am. They are going to hell.

 

1. It can't be the Jesus of their imagination. For example, if their "Jesus" isn't fully man or God, then that "Jesus" will not save them. Got it?

2. Again, it can't be a figment of their imagination.

3. Who are you to judge? Many old people supposedly demonstrate Christlike characteristics. That doesn't mean they are saved. Imitation isn't the same thing as production.

4. I had no idea this forum was so comical. I will have to spend more time here. My suggestion to you would be to stop wrenching passages from their intended context and meaning in favor your sporatic nonsense. Of course, this is my humble opinion.

 

I am. They are going to hell. </font>[/QUOTE]

That’s right… You’re not afraid to be profoundly wrong and falsely judge people according to extra-biblical standards.

But that’s nothing new…

When the two of us are together in the fullness of God’s kingdom, we can laugh at this foolishness.

 

It seems to me that in denying the total depravity of man it becomes necessary for you to deny the fact that God is just.

Those who are not elect are satisfied with their present condition and realize no other existence. We too were taken from this lot; a condition from which we need the effectual call of God in order that we escape.

Bro. Dallas