Does God Know you?

[steaver]

1 Thessalonians 4:6 That no man go beyond and defraud his brother in any matter: because that the Lord is the avenger of all such, as we also have forewarned you and testified.

And this types christians as goats?

God Bless!

 

[James_Newman]

Whether it is temporary or not makes no difference for your position. The punishment you endorse is pure revenge without purpose, this God does not teach throughout His word. All of God's chastisement for His children is for purpose, for leading His children into righteousness. Never just because God wants to punish just for the sake of punishing.

Merely pointing out that vengeance is a purpose unto itself. Youre stuck on goats. Why don't we talk about faithful and wicked servants? Or wise and foolish virgins?

 

[Lacy Evans]

What could be learned by the child spending 1000 years in torment? How not to sin anymore? No, because at this point in the childs life sin is no longer possible, there are no more choices of good verses evil to make, no different paths to take.

What did the Corinthian believers "learn" from their being killed by God? What did Annanias and Sapphira "learn"? They aren't gonna get a chance to walk in any newfound "knowledge" either but God certainly killed them.

What would you suggest the purpose would be for God sending His child to hell for a spell? What could the child learn for the future?

First of all this is a straw man argument. The Bible never presents chastening as always having a future lesson. What did Esau learn? He had absolutely no chance to get his birthright back once he lost it. What did the children of Israel learn from being excluded from the wilderness? Once sentence was passed, they could "learn" all they wanted but they weren't getting in.

If Daddy says, "Mow the lawn before I get back and I'll give you $20.00. But if you don't obey me, I'm not letting you go to the party," What kind of dad is he who finds the lawn unmowed and lets the kid go anyway.

What is the purpose of rewards?
1 Cor 5:10 says there are rewards for both good and bad behavior at the JSOC.
How will any of those rewards help his children "learn [something] for the future"?

Lacy

 

[James_Newman]

I would say that all 'learning' from chastisement up to this point should be the lesson that when God says 'will not inherit the kingdom', He means it.

 

[DHK]

What is the purpose of rewards?
1 Cor 5:10 says there are rewards for both good and bad behavior at the JSOC.
How will any of those rewards help his children "learn [something] for the future"?
Lacy

Talk about Scripture taken out of context!

1 Corinthians 5:10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.

The context is church discipline, and the fact that the believers within the church of a necessity will find themselves coming into contact with the unsaved, even the adulterers, fornicators, covetous, etc. of this world. It cannot be helped. Now, what does that have to do with ME. Nothing! It has nothing to do with rewards, discipline or anythng even remotely close to the subject at hand. Is it a standard policy to defend your position in this way?

 

[James_Newman]

I suspect Lacy missed the mark with the reference there. 2Cor 5:10 is what he is referring to.

 

[Hope of Glory]

Actually, unless I misspoke, I've never typed goats as a type of Christian, but a type of saved individuals. "Christian" means "Christ like", and all saved people certainly don't even try to be Christ like.

That being said, I agree with what James Newman and Lacy Evans have said here, but let me throw something else out at you. This comes from someone who doesn't believe in the gospel of the Kingdom, but she believes that if the gospel of the Kingdom is true, then the purpose of chastizement during the Millennium would be to eradicate the sin nature "retroactively". (Sort of what Lacy stated as, "Do it or else", and this is the "else".)

 

[James_Newman]

Exactly. The threat of future consequences is a powerful motivator, but when the people begin to suspect the threats are hollow, they lose their power.

 

[DHK]

I suspect Lacy missed the mark with the reference there. 2Cor 5:10 is what he is referring to.

Yes, it seems that verse is more appropriate to the subject. The JSOC is a judgment of works not of sin. Here is what Scofield says on that particular verse:

The judgment of the believer's works, not sins, is in question here. These have been atoned for, and are "remembered no more forever" Heb 10:17, Mt 12:36; Ro 14:10; Ga 6:7; Eph 6:8; Col 3:24-25. The result is "reward" or "loss" (of the reward), "but he himself shall be saved" 1Co 3:11-15.

2 Corinthians 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

Our sin is taken care of. Jesus paid it all. The ME doctrine comes dangerously close to denying the atonement--that Christ paid the full penalty for our sin. If Christ did pay the penalty for our sins, then why must the believer pay another penalty in the ME (a Baptist purgatory). This indeed takes away from the atonement. It tells me that the blood of Christ was not sufficient to pay for our sins.

 

[James_Newman]

That was some pretty fancy footwork, DHK. Good looking out on that works/sin thing, because I almost thought that a bad work might be a sin. Wait a minute.. whats this?

2 Timothy 4:14
14 Alexander the coppersmith did me much evil: the Lord reward him according to his works:

 

[Hope of Glory]

Exactly. The threat of future consequences is a powerful motivator, but when the people begin to suspect the threats are hollow, they lose their power.

With my kids, the rule has always been: 1st time is a warning, 2nd time is a time out, 3rd offense is a spanking. There were certain things, such as lying, that were automatic spankings. I think I've had to spank my kids about 3 times each in their lives. Why? Because I would follow through with the threatened chastizement.

How many people have you seen who have kids who are absolutely out of control because they simply keep saying, "Don't do that!" with nothing to follow? Or, they threaten that they are going to do something that they are not going to do?

 

[DHK]

That was some pretty fancy footwork, DHK. Good looking out on that works/sin thing, because I almost thought that a bad work might be a sin. Wait a minute.. whats this?

2 Timothy 4:14
14 Alexander the coppersmith did me much evil: the Lord reward him according to his works:

Are their "bad" works which may not be sin in and of itself?
Is spending time at my computer (even on BB) sin? In and of itself the answer is no. But how does God look upon it. That is the question? Someday I will give account before Him, as to how I spend my time--the tme I spend in prayer, the time I spend in the Word, the time I spend in sermon preparation, the time I spend in visitation, and in witnessing for Him, the actual time that I spend in serving him apart from sitting in front this computer.
What counts for eternity? That is what God is going to look at? What works are going to go through the fire and be purified, refined; and which will be burned? The works that will be burned will not necessarily be sinful in and of themselves. They may simply be works that are not necessary, works that are not building on a foundation that is Christ.
"For other foundation can no man lay but that which is laid; which is Christ."
What am I doing for eternity? That is the question?

In light of that question I will either lose reward or gain reward. My sin has already been taken care of.

 

[James_Newman]

What about defrauding your brother. Would that be a sin? Or a bad work?

1 Thessalonians 4:6 That no man go beyond and defraud his brother in any matter: because that the Lord is the avenger of all such, as we also have forewarned you and testified.

Would God not avenge this act regardless?

 

[DHK]

What about defrauding your brother. Would that be a sin? Or a bad work?

1 Thessalonians 4:6 That no man go beyond and defraud his brother in any matter: because that the Lord is the avenger of all such, as we also have forewarned you and testified.

Would God not avenge this act regardless?

Sin is sin. My sin was taken care at the cross.
1Cor.3:11-15 makes it clear that it is our works that come into judgement--what we have done for Christ.

 

[James_Newman]

Sin is sin. My sin was taken care at the cross.
1Cor.3:11-15 makes it clear that it is our works that come into judgement--what we have done for Christ.

So this 'work' that the Thessalonians are warned against, while not a 'sin', is still something that God will judge. And it was done for Christ. Interesting.

 

[DHK]

So this 'work' that the Thessalonians are warned against, while not a 'sin', is still something that God will judge. And it was done for Christ. Interesting.

I am not sure which verse you are referring to.

 

[James_Newman]

1 Thessalonians 4:6 That no man go beyond and defraud his brother in any matter: because that the Lord is the avenger of all such, as we also have forewarned you and testified.

 

[DHK]

1 Thessalonians 4:6 That no man go beyond and defraud his brother in any matter: because that the Lord is the avenger of all such, as we also have forewarned you and testified.

What makes you so sure that has anything to do with the JSOC at all.
In the book of Romans it clearly says "Vengeance is mine saith the Lord, I will repay." We are not to tke vengeance upon ourselves. This is simple practical teaching for every day living. Why read more into it than is intended.

 

[James_Newman]

What makes you so sure that has anything to do with the JSOC at all.
In the book of Romans it clearly says "Vengeance is mine saith the Lord, I will repay." We are not to tke vengeance upon ourselves. This is simple practical teaching for every day living. Why read more into it than is intended.

Why would it matter if this verse was talking about the judgment seat of Christ or not? The warning is to believers, to not defraud their brethren. Whether the avenging comes at the judgment seat of Christ is not the question. Does God bring punishment on believers for this act of defrauding a brother?

 

[Lacy Evans]

I suspect Lacy missed the mark with the reference there. 2Cor 5:10 is what he is referring to.

Brother James, Got my Back!