Does God Know you?

[steaver]

(James)...I can also rejoice that Christ has given me every thing I need to obtain the reward.

'Rejoice"? Rejoice in "I don't know if God will know me"? How is that being given EVERYTHING you need to obtain the reward? You don't know what you need to obtain the reward because you cannot know what to do to obtain it.

You say you know what is expected of you and then you say "I don't know" if I have done today what is expected of me. If you really know what is expected of you James, you would surely know if you have done what is expected of you today James.

God Bless! :thumbs:

 

[steaver]

(James)...My point being it is strange to imagine unbelievers expecting to inherit the kingdom of God. Why would you imagine that these folks thought such a thing if they were not believers?

How many muslims are in this world James, expecting to inherit the kingdom of God? Do you think they are saved? Or for that matter Jews who are rejecting Jesus?

God Bless! :thumbs:

 

[James_Newman]

'Rejoice"? Rejoice in "I don't know if God will know me"? How is that being given EVERYTHING you need to obtain the reward? You don't know what you need to obtain the reward because you cannot know what to do to obtain it.

You say you know what is expected of you and then you say "I don't know" if I have done today what is expected of me. If you really know what is expected of you James, you would surely know if you have done what is expected of you today James.

God Bless! :thumbs:

And what does the bible say?

1 John 3:20-21
20 For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things.
21 Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then have we confidence toward God.

If you have done everything God requires and your heart doesn't condemn you, then you can have confidence toward God. Nevertheless, God is greater than your heart and just because you feel that you haven't done anything wrong, that doesn't mean it is so. But how much confidence should you have that you are right with God if there are things that your own heart is convinced of?

 

[James_Newman]

How many muslims are in this world James, expecting to inherit the kingdom of God? Do you think they are saved?

God Bless! :thumbs:

Good question. How many devils do they cast out in Jesus' name?

 

[steaver]

(James)...If you have done everything God requires and your heart doesn't condemn you, then you can have confidence toward God. Nevertheless, God is greater than your heart and just because you feel that you haven't done anything wrong, that doesn't mean it is so.

You quote scripture that declares we can have confidence toward God and then refute it with "nevertheless, that does not mean it is so". Taking us right back to "I don't know" and hopelessness.

God Bless! :thumbs:

 

[steaver]

(James)...Good question. How many devils do they cast out in Jesus' name?

What does casting out devils have to do with your statement....

(James)...My point being it is strange to imagine unbelievers expecting to inherit the kingdom of God. Why would you imagine that these folks thought such a thing if they were not believers?

God Bless! :thumbs:

 

[steaver]

James, are you taking the postion that if someone cast out devils it proves they are saved?

In this view then we would have to believe that David Koresh and Jim Jones were indeed saved even though David claimed to be Christ himself and Jim murdered hundreds.

God Bless! :thumbs:

 

[James_Newman]

You quote scripture that declares we can have confidence toward God and then refute it with "nevertheless, that does not mean it is so". Taking us right back to "I don't know" and hopelessness.

God Bless! :thumbs:

You have a strange view of hope, brother. Only God can know absolutely, I can't know. I can know I am saved, because that is based on what God did, not what I do. When you get into your car and drive to work, do you know for sure that you won't have a flat tire? I imagine you don't, but you probably have a reasonable hope that you won't have to change your tire if you keep them well maintained and inflated to the proper pressure. That is really all the hope you could have, unless you were God and know for sure that you won't run over a nail. Does that mean it is hopeless for you to try to get to work without a flat tire?

 

[steaver]

Only God can know absolutely, I can't know. I can know I am saved, because that is based on what God did, not what I do.

Then you declare that you cannot know what to do! If you knew what to do you could do it and then know for sure you have done it. Otherwise you really are not sure what you must do.

(James)....When you get into your car and drive to work, do you know for sure that you won't have a flat tire? I imagine you don't, but you probably have a reasonable hope that you won't have to change your tire if you keep them well maintained and inflated to the proper pressure. That is really all the hope you could have, unless you were God and know for sure that you won't run over a nail. Does that mean it is hopeless for you to try to get to work without a flat tire?

Good example James, let's run with it!

I know what I must do to avoid a flat tire. Proper pressure, proper tread life, stay on the driving surface, don't run over objects I see on the road. I do all these things! BUT, i get a flat!

Explain then to me how getting the flat tire would be MY fault!

It would not! Yet you believe our God will condemn us to outerdarkness for those things that we have absolutely no control over. Is this hope for you brother?


God Bless! :thumbs:

 

[James_Newman]

James, are you taking the postion that if someone cast out devils it proves they are saved?

In this view then we would have to believe that David Koresh and Jim Jones were indeed saved even though David claimed to be Christ himself and Jim murdered hundreds.

God Bless! :thumbs:

Mark 9:38-40
38 And John answered him, saying, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us: and we forbade him, because he followeth not us.
39 But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me.
40 For he that is not against us is on our part.

 

[James_Newman]

Then you declare that you cannot know what to do! If you knew what to do you could do it and then know for sure you have done it. Otherwise you really are not sure what you must do.



Good example James, let's run with it!

I know what I must do to avoid a flat tire. Proper pressure, proper tread life, stay on the driving surface, don't run over objects I see on the road. I do all these things! BUT, i get a flat!

Explain then to me how getting the flat tire would be MY fault!

It would not! Yet you believe our God will condemn us to outerdarkness for those things that we have absolutely no control over. Is this hope for you brother?


God Bless! :thumbs:

It would be your fault for daring to drive the car when you had no hope of not getting a flat tire. :laugh: Let me ask you this, is the reason that you see my view as hoplessness because you know that you have sins that you struggle with as well?

 

[steaver]

Mark 9:38-40
38 And John answered him, saying, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us: and we forbade him, because he followeth not us.
39 But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me.
40 For he that is not against us is on our part.

James, are you taking the postion that if someone cast out devils it proves they are saved?

In this view then we would have to believe that David Koresh and Jim Jones were indeed saved even though David claimed to be Christ himself and Jim murdered hundreds.

God Bless! :thumbs:

Is that a yes? David Koresh is our brother in Christ even though he claimed to be Christ and had sex with little girls?

 

[James_Newman]

James, are you taking the postion that if someone cast out devils it proves they are saved?

In this view then we would have to believe that David Koresh and Jim Jones were indeed saved even though David claimed to be Christ himself and Jim murdered hundreds.

God Bless! :thumbs:

Is that a yes? David Koresh is our brother in Christ even though he claimed to be Christ and had sex with little girls?

I don't care to know what Koresh did with little girls. But if I claim to do something in the name of Christ, and then say 'oh by the way, I am Christ' then am I really doing it in Christ's name, or my own? All I'm saying is that it is not a reasonable argument to insist that these people are unbelievers, because you have to make up scenarios that are not likely in order to make them fit the bill. They have now turned into David Koresh and Jim Jones, but the bible says many on that day will say to him. Do many professed believers fall into the Jim Jones/David Koresh category?

 

[steaver]

(James)....It would be your fault for daring to drive the car when you had no hope of not getting a flat tire. :laugh: Let me ask you this,

...wait a minute. Are you saying God will fault us for that which we have no control over?

.....is the reason that you see my view as hoplessness because you know that you have sins that you struggle with as well?

No. I keep conscience of what is expected of me as a Christian and as one who wants to serve, love and please Christ. I also know for a fact that each day will have some sin in my life because i will not be perfect until Christ rids myself of this flesh.

The reason I see your pov as hopelessness is because it tells the believer to do x,y and z and you will be rewarded, NEVERTHELESS, you still might not be rewarded even if you do x,y and z! The latter negates the former and you end up with zero.

God Bless! :thumbs:

 

[steaver]

(James)...But if I claim to do something in the name of Christ, and then say 'oh by the way, I am Christ' then am I really doing it in Christ's name, or my own?

There you have it James!!! You got it!!!!

"Claiming" and actually "doing" is two seperate things. The criers "SAID" !

(James)...All I'm saying is that it is not a reasonable argument to insist that these people are unbelievers, because you have to make up scenarios that are not likely in order to make them fit the bill. They have now turned into David Koresh and Jim Jones, but the bible says many on that day will say to him. Do many professed believers fall into the Jim Jones/David Koresh category?

Jim and David totally refute the view that all who say they are casting out demons are actually saved. So it is a VERY reasonable scenario that has actually taken place in history taht we can look to as an example showing that casting out demons does not make one a saved individual. These are only two, you know there are MANY!

God Bless! :thumbs:

 

[James_Newman]

...wait a minute. Are you saying God will fault us for that which we have no control over?

My analogy was just to put a finer point on the word hope. Our actions are what we will be judged for, not what we run over. God is just, you belive that right?

No. I keep conscience of what is expected of me as a Christian and as one who wants to serve, love and please Christ. I also know for a fact that each day will have some sin in my life because i will not be perfect until Christ rids myself of this flesh.

The reason I see your pov as hopelessness is because it tells the believer to do x,y and z and you will be rewarded, NEVERTHELESS, you still might not be rewarded even if you do x,y and z! The latter negates the former and you end up with zero.

My POV is the POV that the bible gives me.
Romans 11:20-22
20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

Should I not fear when the bible tells me to fear?

John 15:1-2
1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

Jesus tells me that if I abide in Him, I will bring forth fruit. But if I don't, I will be cut off. This is basic.

John 15:5-6
5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

The hoplessness comes when you say 'I can't abide in Christ, I can't do what he tells me to do'. If you believe that you are keeping His commandments and are doing His will, what reason would you have for thinking He would not keep His promises?

 

[James_Newman]

There you have it James!!! You got it!!!!

"Claiming" and actually "doing" is two seperate things. The criers "SAID" !



Jim and David totally refute the view that all who say they are casting out demons are actually saved. So it is a VERY reasonable scenario that has actually taken place in history taht we can look to as an example showing that casting out demons does not make one a saved individual. These are only two, you know there are MANY!

God Bless! :thumbs:

OK, now all you have to do is explain why David Koresh and Jim Jones are at the judgment seat of Christ.

 

[steaver]

(James)...My analogy was just to put a finer point on the word hope. Our actions are what we will be judged for, not what we run over. God is just, you belive that right?

I merely define what hope is for me as to what it is based on. Hope is dependent on what it is placed in. My hope is placed in Christ and my hope of glory is in Christ alone. It seems to me that the hope you speak of is in yourself, in your works, whether or not you were good enough.

(James)...My POV is the POV that the bible gives me.

I believe your pov is a good one until you inject "nevertheless" into it which is not supported by any scriptures. You have yourself in a hard place because you must insist that Matt 7 is speaking to the saved when it is not. This insistance causes the "nevertheless" to negate the good points that you see in scripture.

Tell me, why must you hold onto Matt 7 as a warning to the saved? Did you ever think that even if your pov about outerdarkness is correct, just maybe your pov about Matt 7 is not? Is your pov of Matt 7 a MUST for your pov to survive?

(James)...If you believe that you are keeping His commandments and are doing His will, what reason would you have for thinking He would not keep His promises?

I would have none! But from your pov the reason would be "nevertheless" you still might not have done as you were told even if you believe you have. That is the flaw in your pov and the flaw in bringing Matt 7 into your view as saved people.

God Bless! :thumbs:

 

[steaver]

(James)...OK, now all you have to do is explain why David Koresh and Jim Jones are at the judgment seat of Christ.

Why must Matt 7 be the JSOC? Were you taught this? Is this perfectly clear in the passage? Is there not other judgments spoken of in the scriptures that this judgment day might fit a bit closer to? Why do you believe it must be the JSOC?

God Bless! :thumbs:

 

[James_Newman]

I merely define what hope is for me as to what it is based on. Hope is dependent on what it is placed in. My hope is placed in Christ and my hope of glory is in Christ alone. It seems to me that the hope you speak of is in yourself, in your works, whether or not you were good enough.

You have to deal with works somewhere in your theology.
James 2:24
24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

I believe your pov is a good one until you inject "nevertheless" into it which is not supported by any scriptures. You have yourself in a hard place because you must insist that Matt 7 is speaking to the saved when it is not. This insistance causes the "nevertheless" to negate the good points that you see in scripture.

Tell me, why must you hold onto Matt 7 as a warning to the saved? Did you ever think that even if your pov about outerdarkness is correct, just maybe your pov about Matt 7 is not? Is your pov of Matt 7 a MUST for your pov to survive?

I think if I were inclined I could build quite a case without ever addressing Matt 7. But your argument that they must be unbelievers because they only 'said' they did those things in Jesus' name could be used to cut out half the bible.

I would have none! But from your pov the reason would be "nevertheless" you still might not have done as you were told even if you believe you have. That is the flaw in your pov and the flaw in bringing Matt 7 into your view as saved people.

God Bless! :thumbs:

The 'nevertheless' is what keeps us from being presumptuous, and causes us to walk circumspectly. It's what causes us to rely on God rather than ourselves. If there were no chance that we could fall, we surely wouldn't have a bunch of warnings in the scriptures.