Does God make mistakes these days?

[Agnus_Dei]

I’ve been following your posts for quite sometime now and for every post you have posted, the sorrier I feel for you. You my friend are very theologically challenged and its time you get back to basics.

If it were true that God created earthquakes, hurricanes or other natural disasters to torture His children, then I wouldn’t be a Christian today. Fact is the evil in this world is not willed by God. Christianity teaches that both physical and moral evil is a result of a world out of whack as a result of our own human freedom. People choose to live near the sea and therefore hurricanes will happen. People choose to live and build high-rises on unstable fault lines and with that, God allows us to make mistakes and live with the consequences. Even so, God doesn’t abandon us and will NEVER abandon His Church, as He promised. God promises to bring forth a greater good out of every instance of evil.

Ask anyone with faith who has suffered great pain or loss and they will surely tell you how God has made good on His promises.
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[Eliyahu]

I disagree with you on that one. Does God only control the temporal punishments of followers of a false religion, or does He, in fact, control everything? Does He leave the driving to us (or them, even)? I don't see how a traffic accident is any less an Act of God than a hurricane or an earthquake. If you're consistant, all things that happen, happen because it is God's Will that they happen, or, it wouldn't have happened.


That's all I have to say.

Soli Deo Gloria,
Dustin

I don't disagree with you on the overall involvements of God in every bit of our lives. However, we must distinguish between His indirect tolerance or allowance and His direct Acts, because no human being can cause the Earthquakes or Hurricanes. Moreover, all the incidents are giving us the message from God.
For example, if any violent criminal rushed into Amish school and killed the innocent children there, it is obvious that the killer himself committed the crime and the children are the victims.
However, if God struck the so-called church during their worship service with Earthquake, it is absolutely 100% God's act and God never makes mistakes, nor does any crime as the killer did.
In case of Amish killings, there is an apparent criminal. In case of Earthquakes, is God a criminal ? Again, that's why I say, God never makes mistakes, and the unmistakable, infallible God hit the exact targets as He wishes and one of the targets was the Roman Catholic church in the process of Mass.

Therefore we must distinguish between them absolutely.

 

[Eliyahu]

I’ve been following your posts for quite sometime now and for every post you have posted, the sorrier I feel for you. You my friend are very theologically challenged and its time you get back to basics.

If it were true that God created earthquakes, hurricanes or other natural disasters to torture His children, then I wouldn’t be a Christian today. Fact is the evil in this world is not willed by God. Christianity teaches that both physical and moral evil is a result of a world out of whack as a result of our own human freedom. People choose to live near the sea and therefore hurricanes will happen. People choose to live and build high-rises on unstable fault lines and with that, God allows us to make mistakes and live with the consequences. Even so, God doesn’t abandon us and will NEVER abandon His Church, as He promised. God promises to bring forth a greater good out of every instance of evil.

Ask anyone with faith who has suffered great pain or loss and they will surely tell you how God has made good on His promises.
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Again, your post makes me doubt that you have ever read thru the Bible for yourself.

Are these not the angels of God?

Rev 9:15
15 And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men.

Re 9:20
And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk:


Who are these angels before God? Are they disobedient to God?

RE 8
1 And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour. 2 And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets. 3 And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne. 4 And the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God out of the angel's hand. 5 And the angel took the censer, and filled it with fire of the altar, and cast it into the earth: and there were voices, and thunderings, and lightnings, and an earthquake. 6 And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound.

Are these a new thing only in the NT, not in the OT?

Deut 27 15 Cursed be the man that maketh any graven or molten image, an abomination unto the LORD, the work of the hands of the craftsman, and putteth it in a secret place. And all the people shall answer and say, Amen

Can you say Amen to the above verse?


Read more:


Deut 28:
15 But it shall come to pass, if thou wilt not hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to observe to do all his commandments and his statutes which I command thee this day; that all these curses shall come upon thee, and overtake thee: 16 Cursed shalt thou be in the city, and cursed shalt thou be in the field. 17 Cursed shall be thy basket and thy store. 18 Cursed shall be the fruit of thy body, and the fruit of thy land, the increase of thy kine, and the flocks of thy sheep. 19 Cursed shalt thou be when thou comest in, and cursed shalt thou be when thou goest out. 20 The LORD shall send upon thee cursing, vexation, and rebuke, in all that thou settest thine hand unto for to do, until thou be destroyed, and until thou perish quickly; because of the wickedness of thy doings, whereby thou hast forsaken me. 21 The LORD shall make the pestilence cleave unto thee, until he have consumed thee from off the land, whither thou goest to possess it. 22 The LORD shall smite thee with a consumption, and with a fever, and with an inflammation, and with an extreme burning, and with the sword, and with blasting, and with mildew; and they shall pursue thee until thou perish. 23 And thy heaven that is over thy head shall be brass, and the earth that is under thee shall be iron. 24 The LORD shall make the rain of thy land powder and dust: from heaven shall it come down upon thee, until thou be destroyed. 25 The LORD shall cause thee to be smitten before thine enemies: thou shalt go out one way against them, and flee seven ways before them: and shalt be removed into all the kingdoms of the earth. 26 And thy carcase shall be meat unto all fowls of the air, and unto the beasts of the earth, and no man shall fray them away. 27 The LORD will smite thee with the botch of Egypt, and with the emerods, and with the scab, and with the itch, whereof thou canst not be healed

Isaiah 29:6

Thou shalt be visited of the LORD of hosts with thunder, and with earthquake, and great noise, with storm and tempest, and the flame of devouring fire.


Does God have no control over the Earhtquake?

Your god may not, but my God is Almighty and can surely control it.


Do you remember, that God swept all the people on Earth except 8 people of Noah's family, by the Flood at the time of Noah? How come the Merciful God brings such disaster ?

Is your church turning to the Resort place of Hypocrites - the Love, or are they preaching the Repentance?

 

[Eliyahu]

If it were true that God created earthquakes, hurricanes or other natural disasters to torture His children, then I wouldn’t be a Christian today. -

Sorry, to tell you this. You are not a Christian but a Roman Catholic

 

[Agnus_Dei]

Sorry, to tell you this. You are not a Christian but a Roman Catholic

Actually I not Roman Catholic, for I haven’t completed the initiation process and been confirmed. That’ll come Easter of 2008.

Furthermore, I was saved your way, by repeating a few scripted lines in a Baptist Church and thus saved from all sin, past, present and future, hence OSAS. So per your theological tradition, no matter what I do, present or future…I’m saved.

But of course, OSAS only pertains to those who agree with your warped theology and whosoever disagrees with you, isn’t “truly born again of the Holy Spirit” and must be non-Christian.

**In addition, one is not saved by embracing one particular cluster of contested theories on justification, authority, and scripture. One is saved by Jesus Christ and His grace alone, which is exactly what the Catholic Catechism, the Council of Trent and the Bible all teach.

Edited**
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[tinytim]

Actually I not Roman Catholic, for I haven’t completed the initiation process and been confirmed. That’ll come Easter of 2008.

Furthermore, I was saved your way, by repeating a few scripted lines in a Baptist Church and thus saved from all sin, past, present and future, hence OSAS. So per your theological tradition, no matter what I do, present or future…I’m saved.

But of course, OSAS only pertains to those who agree with your warped theology and whosoever disagrees with you, isn’t “truly born again of the Holy Spirit” and must be non-Christian.

**In addition, one is not saved by embracing one particular cluster of contested theories on justification, authority, and scripture. One is saved by Jesus Christ and His grace alone, which is exactly what the Catholic Catechism, the Council of Trent and the Bible all teach.

Edited**
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Well at least you learned something in the Baptist church.
I will take our "warped" theology anyday over the RCC.
At least our theology is based on God's words... not an infallible man playing God.

 

[Eliyahu]

Actually I not Roman Catholic, for I haven’t completed the initiation process and been confirmed. That’ll come Easter of 2008.

Furthermore, I was saved your way, by repeating a few scripted lines in a Baptist Church and thus saved from all sin, past, present and future, hence OSAS. So per your theological tradition, no matter what I do, present or future…I’m saved.

But of course, OSAS only pertains to those who agree with your warped theology and whosoever disagrees with you, isn’t “truly born again of the Holy Spirit” and must be non-Christian.

**In addition, one is not saved by embracing one particular cluster of contested theories on justification, authority, and scripture. One is saved by Jesus Christ and His grace alone, which is exactly what the Catholic Catechism, the Council of Trent and the Bible all teach.

Edited**
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I do know very much about your belief and understanding of the Christian faith, and I can still maintain the good fellowship and friendship with you despite the differences and disagreements on the various issues.

OSAS is not the only subject where I differ from you, and I have many friends of mine who don't believe in OSAS but are saved, though I am definitely and clearly on the side of OSAS. Among such friends, many Wesleyan believers claim that they may lose the Salvation.

But the main problem or disagreement which I find with you are the interpretation of the Idolatry, or interpretation of the Bible, many factors of Catholicism such as Theotokos, Purgatory, Papacy, Transubstantiation, Infant Baptism which were already dealt with quite a lot here.

Even in case of the Council of Trent, you must remember that they excluded the Salvation outside the Holy Roman Catholic church, about which I would rather believe this way " There is No Salvation Inside the Roman Catholic Church" as it seems to be the miswording of Outside instead of Inside.

RCC sometimes correctly claim that they are built upon the apostlic tradition ( human tradition) and upon Peter ( though Peter Himself never claimed), while the True Christian churches are built upon Jesus Christ ( 1 Cor 3:11), and RCC confess that they don't go to the Heaven but to the Inferno about which they don't know how long they have to suffer there, while we, the True believers are going to the Heaven via Paradise as the Robber at the Cross did.

Therefore, on this occasion, I would like to kindly ask you to think about why such disaster could happen to the Holy Cathedral if they are so much blessed by the Catholic truth, blessed even by the Virgin Mary.
Dear Agnus, on this occasion, try to listen to the message that God wants to speak to the ears of the Catholic friends.

Nothing in the world can happen without either the Direct Involvement or indirect allowance by God, or tacit overlooking by Him, or His own providence of God, or Desertion by God, or Will of God.

And the Earthquake struck the exact targets that God wanted to hit, and one of the targets was the Mass at the Catholic Cathedral, and we must learn from any events on this world, and the messages is that we should repent from our sins.

I know you passed thru all the Baptist church teachings and practices, but I believe that you would have changed quite a lot if you had the great experience of receiving the Holy Spirit into your heart personally, which is different from mental acceptance or understanding. If you had the real experience of receiving the Holy Spirit, you wouldn't believe in the Baptismal Regeneration. You wouldn't agree with Infant Baptism which is the way of Mass-production of Unbelieving churchmen in Christendom.

So, please think about this matter quietly but seriously.

 

[Agnus_Dei]

Well at least you learned something in the Baptist church.
I will take our "warped" theology anyday over the RCC.
At least our theology is based on God's words... not an infallible man playing God.

If you believe that God sends hurricanes, earthquakes or any other natural disaster to torture His children, then you too describe to a wrapped theology. Again, in case you failed to read, Christianity teaches that both physical and moral evil is a result of a world out of whack as a result of our own human freedom.

In speaking of your theology, I’ll stick to the theology of the Church who was charged to safeguard the correct and authentic Orthodox teaching passed on to her from the Apostles from the beginning of the Church age.

The problem with Protestantism lies with sola scriptura, which gives the individual the green light to formulate his or her own theology to suit ones feelings. Hence theology becomes “mine” or “ours” instead of the Churches.

If sola scriptura can result in everything from the philosophical theology of Calvinism to the Open View of God, from Nicean Trinitarianism to social trinitarianism to Oneness Pentecostalism’s rehabilitation of Sabellianism to 19th-century Unitarianism, then sola scriptura is NOT a sufficient bulwark for sustaining Christian orthodoxy.
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[BobRyan]

IF "sola papacy" can result in everything from torture of the saints to praying to the dead and "Mary sinnless like God" then simply adding man-made-tradition wherever it suites you can not possibly be the right way to go.

HOW IN THE WORLD could Catholics in the dark ages know for certain that they were killing the right Catholics as each group gathered under the banner of their favorite war-pope and "may the best pope win" was the motto for battles fought??

The historic RCC gave up on Scripture based doctrinal tests in favor of battle-doctrines where the heretics were killed and so "couldn't have another opinion to deal with". What kind of new low ground is that to be arguing for???

If the argument is for "magesterium" well surprise surprise - EVERYBODY has one!!

in Christ,

Bob

 

[Eliyahu]

The problem with Protestantism lies with sola scriptura, which gives the individual the green light to formulate his or her own theology to suit ones feelings. Hence theology becomes “mine” or “ours” instead of the Churches.

Tiber Swim Team - Class of '08

"The reformer is always right about what is wrong. He is generally wrong about what is right." G. K. Chesterton
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Is the River Tiber clean enough to swim these days?

I think it is quite polluted with many human wastes like Papacy, Theotokos, Purgatory, Obligatory Celibacy, though they removed Limbo.

What are the 5 solas of Catholic?

I would think about, Sola Mary ( Sola Mama), Sola Papa, Sola Mass, Sola Tradition, Sola Apocrypha( you put it above Scriptura).

Sola Catholic, Sola Priests are extras.

 

[mman]

This thread has begun to turn a little nasty. Here is my perspective.

Why do we have earthquakes, tornados and hurricanes. It's called Physics.

Jesus even posed the question, "Or those eighteen on whom the tower in Siloam fell and killed them: do you think that they were worse offenders than all the others who lived in Jerusalem?" - Luke 13:4

Then in the next verse, he answers His near rhetorical question, "No".

Why did the tower fall on them? Physics. Why did they die? Physics.

The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. - II Pet 3:9

Christians are not promised trouble free lives, but help in times of trouble. Every man will die, whether it is in an accident, tornado, earthquake, or in their sleep. Just because something tragic happens to someone, don't assume it was because they were worse sinners than others around them. What sense would that make if God truly wanted them to come to repentance, but killed them before they could???

 

[Eliyahu]

This thread has begun to turn a little nasty. Here is my perspective.

Why do we have earthquakes, tornados and hurricanes. It's called Physics.

Jesus even posed the question, "Or those eighteen on whom the tower in Siloam fell and killed them: do you think that they were worse offenders than all the others who lived in Jerusalem?" - Luke 13:4

Then in the next verse, he answers His near rhetorical question, "No".

Why did the tower fall on them? Physics. Why did they die? Physics.

The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. - II Pet 3:9

Christians are not promised trouble free lives, but help in times of trouble. Every man will die, whether it is in an accident, tornado, earthquake, or in their sleep. Just because something tragic happens to someone, don't assume it was because they were worse sinners than others around them. What sense would that make if God truly wanted them to come to repentance, but killed them before they could???

You omitted the important word in the passage, Repent.

3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish. 5 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

How would you have preached the Repentance to the people who were killed during the Catholic Mass, before the tragedy?

Jesus was comparing the people with the other Galileans. Did He compare them with the repented Believers?

You are based on the wrong theology and therefore missed the message from God, and you don't distinguish between the human disasters and the pure Acts of God.

 

[mman]

You omitted the important word in the passage, Repent.

3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish. 5 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

How would you have preached the Repentance to the people who were killed during the Catholic Mass, before the tragedy?

Jesus was comparing the people with the other Galileans. Did He compare them with the repented Believers?

You are based on the wrong theology and therefore missed the message from God, and you don't distinguish between the human disasters and the pure Acts of God.

Did you miss what Jesus said? A tower fell on the people, not because they were the worst sinners. Therefore, it was physics that killed those folks and not some act of divine judgment. If they did not repent, was Jesus telling them a tower or some other natrual destruction was going to kill them??? I don't think that is what Jesus had in mind. The perishing would be of a spiritual nature.

Jesus also said we would be judged by the words He spoke (Jn 12:48). Some of those words included, "Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned."

When this instruction was first carried out, believers asked what they needed to do (Acts 2:37). They were told to repent and be baptized for the remission of their sins (Acts 2:38).

So again we have the idea, repent or you will be condemned, certainly a future eternal condemnation.

Don't forget, II Pet 3:9, "The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.

 

[Eliyahu]

Did you miss what Jesus said? A tower fell on the people, not because they were the worst sinners. Therefore, it was physics that killed those folks and not some act of divine judgment.

Correctly a Physics was involved in the accident in that case and it is not a pure divine act. The tower might have been built in poor design. Then the people whom God targeted were killed. Among the victims, there was nobody whom God wanted to protect from the accident. But, anyway that was different from the Earthquake which is purely divine act and no one except God can be responsibile for the killing.

If they did not repent, was Jesus telling them a tower or some other natrual destruction was going to kill them??? I don't think that is what Jesus had in mind. The perishing would be of a spiritual nature.

Jesus said this: Luke 13
3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish. 4 Or those eighteen, upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and slew them, think ye that they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem? 5 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

What Jesus meant is that if they repented, the accident wouldn't have fallen upon those victims.

If you do not repent, the same ( any similar nature of accidents) may occur upon you too. This is the message from Him.

Jesus also said we would be judged by the words He spoke (Jn 12:48). Some of those words included, "Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned."

When this instruction was first carried out, believers asked what they needed to do (Acts 2:37). They were told to repent and be baptized for the remission of their sins (Acts 2:38).

I do not deny that the believers must be baptized. What I argue with you is the nature of the Baptism and the requirement for the salvation.
Baptism is not the requirements for the salvation, but the most important factor for the Obedience after the Salvation.
Please note that Jesus didn't say Whosoever believes but is not baptized will be damned.

So again we have the idea, repent or you will be condemned, certainly a future eternal condemnation.

Don't forget, II Pet 3:9, "The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.

Yes, I do repent for my daily sins and tresspases. For this OP, do you agree that the accidents remind us of the Repentance?

The overall Repentance is done at the time of Salvation, the remission of sins.
So, when John the Baptist cried " Repent", he was asking the repentance for their overall lives leading to the Salvation.
If the people were sacrificing and praying to the True God, having repented upon their sins while they were sacrificing in the Mass of Holy Catholic, what did they have to repent?

Didn't Jesus mean the Repentance for the Salvation? Or if they already saved, didn't they have to repent for specific sins?
Who struck the Cathedral? Isn't he the God who created the whole universe and is still operating the whole universe now? Does God have no control over the Quake while He operates all the phenomena of the Earth?
Therefore, it was God that struck the Cathedral in Pisco, Peru.
Are the remnant Catholic repenting? Repenting for what?
As I pointed out, is it common that the church members are killed during their service by the Acts of God? When did such accidents as killing more than 60 occur?

I have been preaching the Repentance to the Catholics for their idolatry, goddess worship, paganism, for all the heresies, adn will do it as long as the opportunities allow me to. Would you preach the repentance to the Catholics?

 

[Iamodd4God]

I don't want to make this a lengthy debate, but want to know how you interpret this type of disaster which may be called Acts of God.

Moreover, my heart goes to those families of the victims.

Among the 450 dead, more than 60 were from this single Catholic church in Peru because of the Quake.

Some years ago, a Catholic church along with the statue of Mary in New Brunswick was hit by the Lightening and the 119 year old, Catholic church was burnt down.

Why does it happen to the Holy Catholic Church? Did God make some error in hiting the targets?

How do the Catholic or Pro-Catholics interpret this situation?

Do those Catholic Churches have nothing to do with the God who has the power to control the Lightening, Quake, and Tsunami etc?

Of course, this type of disasters may happen to the Protestant churches, though it may be much seldom in frequency.

How would you interpret and accept this kind of situation?

Did they have the right faith? Can this kind of Disaster happen to you and to any of true believers?

God is terrible indeed, right? ( Psalm 47:2)

You mentioned the Catholic church being struck by lightning, and by your post one could conclude that you are implying that God not making a mistake struck this Catholic church down. Am I right?

Assuming that I am I would have to ask: why would God strike down a Catholic church, and not a Satanic church? Why would God strike down a Catholic church, and not a Buddhist temple? Do you honestly picture God sitting on His throne tossing lightning bolts like Thor? No, this is not how God operates.

God has and will destroy entire cities like He did Sodom and Gomorrah, because of their wickedness. In fact God destroyed the whole world once already because of the wickedness; remember the story of the flood? God will destroy the earth again, but not by water as He promised, the next time God destroys the world it will be by fire.

But until then what about these tragic events that takes so many lives? Are they acts of God or acts of nature? Honestly, there is no way we can tell. We can't say that hurricane Katrina was a message from God to the ungodly, because nobody knows that for sure. But we can know from the Bible why Christians die in tragic events that are caused by God...

Ezekiel 14:12 The word of the LORD came again to me, saying,
Ezekiel 14:13 Son of man, when the land sinneth against me by trespassing grievously, then will I stretch out mine hand upon it, and will break the staff of the bread thereof, and will send famine upon it, and will cut off man and beast from it:
Ezekiel 14:14 Though these three men, Noah, Daniel, and Job, were in it, they should deliver but their own souls by their righteousness, saith the Lord GOD.

If God strikes a land with famine to cut off (destroy) the people this famine will also have physical effect on the righteous people as well. The difference is when the righteous die they will go to heaven because of their righteousness. The unrighteous will not go to heaven.

If God struck down my city with fire destroying EVERYTHING in it; that would include the righteous people as well. Did God make a mistake? Not at all.

In the name of Jesus Christ,

Ken

 

[Eliyahu]

You mentioned the Catholic church being struck by lightning, and by your post one could conclude that you are implying that God not making a mistake struck this Catholic church down. Am I right?

Yes, He struck it by Earthquake.

Assuming that I am I would have to ask: why would God strike down a Catholic church, and not a Satanic church?

Don't you know that Catholic church is Satanic church full of Idolatry and goddess worship, etc?

Why would God strike down a Catholic church, and not a Buddhist temple? Do you honestly picture God sitting on His throne tossing lightning bolts like Thor? No, this is not how God operates.

God may be striking Buddhist temples too. Buddhists didn't kill the True Christians as many as Catholic did. Buddhists are lazy and leading to the poverty, but they don't kill the people as many as RCC did. They are much less violent than RCC are.

Yes, God operates everything in the world without 1 mm error. If someone else than God operates and hit the Earthquake, the plan of God should have been revised and altered. Then God has to yield to that person who can cause the Earthquake without His permission. Who can do so? The nature does it by itself? Then you don't believe in ALMIGHTY, Omniscient, Omnipresent God, but a limited god with limited capacity !!!!

God has and will destroy entire cities like He did Sodom and Gomorrah, because of their wickedness. In fact God destroyed the whole world once already because of the wickedness; remember the story of the flood? God will destroy the earth again, but not by water as He promised, the next time God destroys the world it will be by fire.

But until then what about these tragic events that takes so many lives? Are they acts of God or acts of nature? Honestly, there is no way we can tell. We can't say that hurricane Katrina was a message from God to the ungodly, because nobody knows that for sure. But we can know from the Bible why Christians die in tragic events that are caused by God...

Even a small accident doesn't take place without either the will or the providence or the allowance or the tolerance or the desertion of God.
All that we need is the lessons and the message teaching us the Repentance.

Ezekiel 14:12 The word of the LORD came again to me, saying,
Ezekiel 14:13 Son of man, when the land sinneth against me by trespassing grievously, then will I stretch out mine hand upon it, and will break the staff of the bread thereof, and will send famine upon it, and will cut off man and beast from it:
Ezekiel 14:14 Though these three men, Noah, Daniel, and Job, were in it, they should deliver but their own souls by their righteousness, saith the Lord GOD.

If God strikes a land with famine to cut off (destroy) the people this famine will also have physical effect on the righteous people as well. The difference is when the righteous die they will go to heaven because of their righteousness. The unrighteous will not go to heaven.

If God struck down my city with fire destroying EVERYTHING in it; that would include the righteous people as well. Did God make a mistake? Not at all.

In the name of Jesus Christ,

Ken

Abraham, Noah, Daniel, Job have suffered certain disasters, tribulation, famine etc. but they were well preserved and protected by God. They repented and obeyed the commandments of God.

You should have read the Psalms and what I posted before posting.

God hits the exact targets, makes no mistakes. One of his targets this time was the people in the Cathedral full of idolatry, performing the so-called Mass which is idolatry and denial of Jesus and His Sacrifice once for all. Do you know this?

 

[Iamodd4God]

Yes, He struck it by Earthquake.

How do you know it was God and not just an act of nature? Did God tell you He did this? That's my point, you can't say "YES, GOD DID THIS!" because you don't know that.

Don't you know that Catholic church is Satanic church full of Idolatry and goddess worship, etc?

Yes I do know this, but that was my point. Why would God just single out "THAT" Catholic church? Why didn't He strike down "ALL" of the Catholic churches? And why stop at the Catholics, why not hammer "ALL" the other false teaching religions?

Make no mistake this will happen, but not until the end. The things that happen now, may or may not be caused by God, we can't say either way, because we DON'T know. When a tornado rips through a town, I can't say "Go God! Get them heathens!" One I don't believe God operates that way any way. And two, God didn't say: "Hey Ken, check this out!" letting me know it is Him doing this.

You are saying that it is God as if you are certain. So how are you certain? You base your belief on the fact that a Catholic church got hit. That's not proof of anything.

God may be striking Buddhist temples too. Buddhists didn't kill the True Christians as many as Catholic did. Buddhists are lazy and leading to the poverty, but they don't kill the people as many as RCC did. They are much less violent than RCC are.

Saul who later became the apostle Paul was responsible for the death of thousands of Christians. It was Saul who stood watch over the mens coats as they stoned Stephen to death (Acts 7:51-59). If God operates as you believe He does, why didn't He strike these men down?

Yes, God operates everything in the world without 1 mm error. If someone else than God operates and hit the Earthquake, the plan of God should have been revised and altered. Then God has to yield to that person who can cause the Earthquake without His permission. Who can do so? The nature does it by itself? Then you don't believe in ALMIGHTY, Omniscient, Omnipresent God, but a limited god with limited capacity !!!!

Have you not read the story of Job? Who attacked Job by destroying everything he had? Was it not Satan? Did not Satan use the weather?

Even a small accident doesn't take place without either the will or the providence or the allowance or the tolerance or the desertion of God.
All that we need is the lessons and the message teaching us the Repentance.

I would say that even the smallest accident doesn't happen without God knowing it, but to say God somehow has a hand in it? No, I don't believe that at all.

Abraham, Noah, Daniel, Job have suffered certain disasters, tribulation, famine etc. but they were well preserved and protected by God. They repented and obeyed the commandments of God.

What? Provide us with some Scripture supporting your claim here. Show me with Scripture where Abraham suffered from disaster. Where Noah suffered from disaster etc. And be sure that those passges of Scripture show that it was to get them to repent and obey God.

You should have read the Psalms and what I posted before posting.

God hits the exact targets, makes no mistakes. One of his targets this time was the people in the Cathedral full of idolatry, performing the so-called Mass which is idolatry and denial of Jesus and His Sacrifice once for all. Do you know this?

Again, did God tell you this? Not likely, so it is just your ASSUMPTION that it was God doing this. I can say "I know it was God that sent hurricane Katrina as a message!" Then someone can say "Well, Ken, how do you know that?" And all I could say is "I just know."

In the name of Jesus Christ,

Ken

 

[Eliyahu]

How do you know it was God and not just an act of nature? Did God tell you He did this? That's my point, you can't say "YES, GOD DID THIS!" because you don't know that

Yes I do know this, but that was my point. Why would God just single out "THAT" Catholic church? Why didn't He strike down "ALL" of the Catholic churches? And why stop at the Catholics, why not hammer "ALL" the other false teaching religions?

Billions of years ago, God knew that the Quake would happen, Tsunami would take place, nothing could happen without His foreknowledge. So, nobody can deny God knew the disasters, nothing could happen against His knowledge. If anyone like nature or physics can deter what was expected by God, then it means there exists something that God cannot control and denies the truth that God is Almighty. If the disasters are bad and wicked, then why doesn't God prevent them? Why is God so idle and lazy not to do his own work to prevent them?
God visits the people with these:
Isaiah 29:6
Thou shalt be visited of the LORD of hosts with thunder, and with earthquake,

God numbers the viruses and controls the diseases as well. Read Deut 28, the whole chapter, of which the excerptions are here:
Deut 28
21 The LORD shall make the pestilence cleave unto thee, until he have consumed thee from off the land, whither thou goest to possess it. 22 The LORD shall smite thee with a consumption, and with a fever, and with an inflammation, and with an extreme burning, and with the sword, and with blasting, and with mildew; and they shall pursue thee until thou perish.

As for the other religions and other pagans, God waits for the repentance of the remaining people saying this:

2 Peter 3
9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Why did He select the Cathedral of that city specifically this time?

Jesus answered this:
Luke 13
3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish. 4 Or those eighteen, upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and slew them, think ye that they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem? 5 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

It is the choice and providence of God, and it reminds us of the Repentance.
Are you preaching the Repentance? Then it is time for you to refer to this incident and tell the people to repent !

Make no mistake this will happen, but not until the end. The things that happen now, may or may not be caused by God, we can't say either way, because we DON'T know. When a tornado rips through a town, I can't say "Go God! Get them heathens!" One I don't believe God operates that way any way. And two, God didn't say: "Hey Ken, check this out!" letting me know it is Him doing this.

Your god cannot control the Tornado, but my God is Almighty and controls everything in the universe. He is the Creator and Operator of the whole universe.
He bindeth up the waters oin the thick clouds ( Job 26:8) and divideth the sea ( 26:12)

You are saying that it is God as if you are certain. So how are you certain? You base your belief on the fact that a Catholic church got hit. That's not proof of anything.

Read the Bible Deut 28. You will find it is a curse unless it is a blessing.
Do you believe that God knew before you were formed in the belly of your mother? ( Jer 1:5, and Ps 139:13-15)

Saul who later became the apostle Paul was responsible for the death of thousands of Christians. It was Saul who stood watch over the mens coats as they stoned Stephen to death If God operates as you believe He does, why didn't He strike these men down?

This is the typical questions from Anti-Christians. Why didn’t God prevent Adam and Eve from eating the fruits of knowledge of Good and Evil ?
I must repeat the same verses

2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slack .... that all should come to repentance
1 Tim 2:
4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

Have you not read the story of Job? Who attacked Job by destroying everything he had? Was it not Satan? Did not Satan use the weather?

9 Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought? 10 Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance F5 is increased in the land
But put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face.

Satan could afflict Job only because God allowed him to.
Please note: There is a controversy about whether the Satan was indeed the satan or he was the accusing( prosecuting) angel, because Satan itself means the Accuser, criticizer. The prevailing opinion is Satan because the word has the article. But then the question is whether Satan can participate in the conference with God. Any way, still nothing can happen without the permission of God.

I would say that even the smallest accident doesn't happen without God knowing it, but to say God somehow has a hand in it? No, I don't believe that at all.

Nothing can happen in the world without any form of God’s involvement.

What? Provide us with some Scripture supporting your claim here. Show me with Scripture where Abraham suffered from disaster. Where Noah suffered from disaster etc. And be sure that those passages of Scripture show that it was to get them to repent and obey God.

Abraham suffered the great famine ( Gen 12) Noah suffered from the Flood, Job suffered the tribulation, they were protected from the disasters, and after all they were changed. Noah offered the Burnt offering on the Altar (Gn 8:20), which means the confession of sins unto God, After all Abraham called upon the name of the Lord at Bethel ( Gn 13:4) Job repented sitting on the ashes ( Job 42:6)

Again, did God tell you this? Not likely, so it is just your ASSUMPTION that it was God doing this. I can say "I know it was God that sent hurricane Katrina as a message!" Then someone can say "Well, Ken, how do you know that?" And all I could say is "I just know."

My God created all things on the earth and the whole universe, your god may not be able to control the hurricane Katrina, but it is within the control of my God. If I walk in the righteousness, He will never allow me to suffer from any disasters. If your god cannot control over the natural disasters, your god is incompetent but my God knows everything in advance and controls everything.
Even the politics and many other things are under the control of God. However, the types and the styles of God’s doing are different depending on the disasters or the accidents. The Acts of God such as Earthquake and Hurricanes are the works which no human beings can control or are involved in and therefore should be understood as purely Acts of God. Traffic Accidents or Wars are happening but human desires can be involved in there. So, in such case God works indirectly as He assigned or allowed certain tribulations to Satan. So, the types and styles of God’s working are Positive Will, Permission, Providence, Allowance, Tolerance, Desertion, Visiting, Answering, etc.
Have you ever read thru the Bible for yourself?
Read Deut 28, 29 thoroughly, then you will find some good truth about how God punishes the un-repenting people.