Does God want all to be saved?

[xdisciplex]

How can we solve this problem?
I mean if God wants all humans to be saved does this mean he's not omnipotent because not all will be saved?
And if God is omnipotent and not all will be saved does this mean he doesn't even want all to be saved?

 

[billwald]

Does God have "wants?"

 

[webdog]

2Pe 3:9 The Lord does not delay His promise, as some understand delay, but is patient with you, not wanting any to perish, but all to come to repentance.

Yes, God does have "wants".

 

[SpiritualMadMan]

"X"

By choice God has granted us Free Will...

Though some Calvinists will disagree... Stating that Election and Predestination overrule Free Will...

In that case yes there is a problem...

But, if by choice God has left our choice of eternal allegiance up to us...

Then God can want us all to be saved...

But, God will not force us all to be saved...

Love that is Forced is no love at all...

Jesus gave Himself for us... true it was God's Plan... But,

Matthew 26:53 Do you think I cannot call on my Father, and he will at once put at my disposal more than twelve legions of angels?

God apparently values Free Will terribly highly...

Even when the result is to cause Himself sorrow at our loss...

Mike Sr.

(Do you realize how hard it is for an Armenian to dance around like this on a Calvinist Forum! )

Whew!

 

[Nicholas25]

I am a member of a Free Will Baptist Church so I agree with spiritualmadman. However, I have no problem talking, disagreeing and worshiping with people who are Calvanist or believe OSAS. Other than the salvation issue and other tiny issues the FWB and SB are pretty much the same. I love all Christians.

 

[Living_stone]

God desires all to be saved - but salvation is a two way street. God is not a rapist, he does not force his love - but he gives it freely to those who accept his Grace with open hearts.

God's omnipotence has nothing to do with it. God cannot create a square circle because such a thing simply doesn't exist by definition - it's a non-thing. Similarly we cannot love if we're forced to do it beyond our will. It's always in our grasp, and we can always let it go or embrace it.

 

[BobRyan]

Originally posted by xdisciplex:
How can we solve this problem?
I mean if God wants all humans to be saved does this mean he's not omnipotent because not all will be saved?
And if God is omnipotent and not all will be saved does this mean he doesn't even want all to be saved?

Always go to the Bible whenever possible. The musings of mankind can often lead down a dark alley --

2Peter 3
7 But by His word the present heavens and earth are being reserved for fire, kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.
8 But do not let this one fact escape your notice, beloved, that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years like one day.
9 The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.
10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar and the elements will be destroyed with intense heat, and the earth and its works will be burned up.
11 Since all these things are to be destroyed in this way, what sort of people ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness,
12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be destroyed by burning, and the elements will melt with intense heat!

John 3:16 "God so loved THE WORLD that He Gave..." -- yes "really"!

1 John 2:2 'He is the atoning sacrifice for Our sins and NOT for OUR sins only but for the sins of the WHOLE WORLD"

"God is not willing for any to perish" but for ALL to come to repentance. -- Can you believe it when you read it?

I can.

But as we see in Matt 7 - the "MANY" go to the wide road of desctruction and the FEW go to heaven.

How can this be?

Think about it?

Start at the beginning - Did God WANT the sinless, perfect, holy Lucifer to FAIL?

Did God want Adam to fail?

Are the failures of free will beings created by God - "God's Fault"? Are they signs that God "failed to control them and zap their minds"?

OR is it a sign that God is WILLING to create free will EVEN if it is costly to do so!

(IT can be hard BEING God sometimes - so don't spend to long trying to work at it.)

In Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Another way to word this ---

"Shouldn't God have RIGGED the game so that the Jews COULD not reject their Messiah"??

"Shouldn't God have rigged the game so that Adam COULD NOT choose rebellion and cost the loss of humanity and the death of God the Son on the cross"??

"Shouldn't God have rigged the game so that Lucifer would never know what hit him BEFORE he completed that firs thought leaning toward rebellion?"

Think about it.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[wopik]

of course. that's why He stayed dead for 3days and 3nights - http://www.abcog.org/ntsab.htm


http://www.borntowin.net/radioarchives.aspx

 

[KellyWhite]

GOD wants all of His children to be saved.

No doubt about it.

 

[DesiderioDomini]

Paul said he "desires all men to be saved"

Desire=want.....I think so.

Calvanism is soundly beaten!!! Declare victory!!!!

 

[xdisciplex]

Hi!

But the question is why does free will always seem to lead away from God? I mean it looks like free will is a weakness. Do you think that if God had played the scenario with Adam and Eve again and again that they always would have chosen to sin? Or is it also imaginable that they would simply have chosen to obey God?
Because if free will always means that we will decide against God then people might simply say that God is responsible for this because he created us with a flaw and this is why we do what we do.

 

[SpiritualMadMan]

If the same scenario with Adam and eve was replayed it would more than likely end the same way...

Gen 3:1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?

Gen 3:2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:
Gen 3:3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.

Eve added to God's Word and set herself up for the deception.

Gen 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
Gen 3:5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

Gen 3:6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

At least Eve had to be decieved!

I guess Adam was either just plain stupid or dazzled by Eve's beauty?

Free Will does not always lead us away from God...

James 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
James 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

Free Will *allows* us to sin if we allow temptation to decieve us...

I think that God's giving us the measure of Free Will He has, is a point of Honor in the Heavenlies...

Will we obey because we Love Our Creator? Or, not?

Will we listen to satan's siren song of lust filled temptation?

Or, will we hearken to God...

If you have trouble with my "Point of Honor" analogy try re-reading Job.

Also, try this verse on for size...

2 Timothy 2:13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself. (KJV)

2 Timothy 2:13 if we are faithless, he will remain faithful, for he cannot disown himself. (NIV)

Mike Sr.

 

[BobRyan]

Originally posted by xdisciplex:
Hi!

But the question is why does free will always seem to lead away from God? I mean it looks like free will is a weakness. Do you think that if God had played the scenario with Adam and Eve again and again that they always would have chosen to sin?

2/3 of the Angels did not "choose sin". 1/3 did.

Adam and Eve chose sin - how do we know all other planet systems are "empty" or "have beings in rebellion". I don't know that for a fact - in fact from Job 1 and 2 it appears that only THIS planet has that problem.

Saul "chooses" Christ and becomes "Paul" in the book of Acts.

The 12 disciples choose Christ even though many other Jews choose against Him.

With priviledge comes responsibility.

God wants people to love him that freely choose it - not robots.

If all God could do - is what man does creating "robots" then if the robot does something wrong it is an "error" on the part of the designer/maker.

But God CAN and DOES create free will beings. That means with NO FLAWS they can still freely choose error. It is hard to fathom since "we can't do that" - we are stuck with just making "robots".

In Christ,

Bob

 

[SpiritualMadMan]

Hey Bob,

Is this a fair statement?

Saul "chooses" Christ and becomes "Paul" in the book of Acts.

I mean Paul *was* hit with a pretty big two by four...

I am not sure any sane man would turn down a proposition like that...

True, he *could* have said no... But, duh! Only an idiot would have...

(does that say something about willful sinners? )

Mike Sr.