Does it really matter if you're a Calvinist?

[Skandelon]

Let's presume Calvinism is correct. Does it really matter if some people believe and teach Arminianism?

1. The same number of people will be in heaven regardless, right?

2. God decreed/ordained those of us to be Arminians, right?

3. You evangelize because "God told you to," but does he tell you to spend countless hours debating people who take "Anthropomorphic" texts at their face value? (Texts such as when Moses prays and God relents in destroying Israel) If so, to what end? You can only convince us to change our doctrine if God has decreed for it to be so, right? Is the motive to convert an Arminian the same for converting an elect who has yet to respond? If so, where is that command in scripture and shouldn't you eventually "dust off your feet" and move on in both situations? In short, what biblical mandate are you really accomplishing here?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Q: Does it really matter if you're a Calvinist?

A: Yes, absolutely.

 

[Skandelon]

Q: Does it really matter if you're a Calvinist?

A: Yes, absolutely.

Why exactly?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Why exactly?

Because thats my belief system. I believe it to be scriptural & I believe thats how I came to salvation.

Kinda like your story about being a Calvinist & then becoming a Free willie in reverse. My testimony fits DoG to a tee so Ive been there & done it & got the Reformed tee shirt to prove it. Didnt you get one when you were saved?

 

[MNJacob]

Absolutely, totally, unequivocably...................not.

It doesn't even matter if you are a Baptist.

Oh shudder! Perish the thought.

 

[gb93433]

Let's presume Calvinism is correct. Does it really matter if some people believe and teach Arminianism?

Anything with an ...ism on the end is not scripture. Why study calvinism or arminianism when I have scripture.

How would the presuppositions of calvinism or arminianism help me to arrive at a theology of evil considering 1 Samuel 16:14-23?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Anything with an ...ism on the end is not scripture. Why study calvinism or arminianism when I have scripture.

How would the presuppositions of calvinism or arminianism help me to arrive at a theology of evil considering 1 Samuel 16:14-23?

Yea I heard that too. 20 yrs a go the Presbyterian Pastor down the street decided to roll that way & thus neglected his doctrines....why should I teach them Doctrine or confessions of faith since I have the bible. Thus he slid on the slippery slope till the church closed its doors due to the anything goes liberal stance he took. A foreclosure sign sits on the doors of the church.No thanks!

 

[WestminsterMan]

Q: Does it really matter if you're a Calvinist?

Not in the least. We must all work out our salvation with fear and trembling.

Peace!
WM

 

[glfredrick]

I may be an unlikely dissenting voice here, but I'll say that the label does not matter in the least.

Probably, at the end of the day, the theology doesn't either -- with one caveat -- without a right understanding of the gospel, a person may have "religiously" bought into a false sense of security and not be truly born anew from above by the power of the Holy Spirit.

I'd suggest that 90+% (or so has been my experience) of our church folk don't really have a clue what the terms even mean, or why they are important, and they are people who love the Lord and are loved by the Lord.

At the end of the day, we have to remember that the arguments we have here are not the end of the world... Church goes on every Sunday with or without our arguments, just as it has for about 2000 years and before that through Israel.

 

[gb93433]

Yea I heard that too. 20 yrs a go the Presbyterian Pastor down the street decided to roll that way & thus neglected his doctrines....why should I teach them Doctrine or confessions of faith since I have the bible. Thus he slid on the slippery slope till the church closed its doors due to the anything goes liberal stance he took. A foreclosure sign sits on the doors of the church.No thanks!

How did he measure up to James 1:22 and Mt. 28:19,20?

 

[Jerome]

"Orthodox sinners will find that hell is hot, and that their knowledge of predestination will not yield a cooling drop to their parched tongues." —Charles Spurgeon, "Labor in Vain"

 

[Skandelon]

I may be an unlikely dissenting voice here, but I'll say that the label does not matter in the least.

Probably, at the end of the day, the theology doesn't either -- with one caveat -- without a right understanding of the gospel, a person may have "religiously" bought into a false sense of security and not be truly born anew from above by the power of the Holy Spirit.

And if Calvinism is correct, then this really doesn't matter in that they were non-elect anyway, right? What harm is done in giving a non-elect reprobate hope of being saved? At least he has some hope before he is sent away to suffer for eternity, right?

If however, Calvinism is incorrect, just consider the implications.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

How did he measure up to James 1:22 and Mt. 28:19,20?

Oh he's about 5'10" oh you mean scripturally...lets put it this way he was allowing gays free expression of life style inorder to get people in the seats & your on the money with James 1:22.....became part of the new PCUSA apostate system. Subsequently most folks split to more conservative / Orthodox Churches where they could be fed.

Now he was not trained to do that & the guy before him was a very godly man & prospered do to his centering on Scripture & correct doctrine. This guy however threw it all out the window.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

And if Calvinism is correct, then this really doesn't matter in that they were non-elect anyway, right? What harm is done in giving a non-elect reprobate hope of being saved? At least he has some hope before he is sent away to suffer for eternity, right?

If however, Calvinism is incorrect, just consider the implications.

There you go again with your Calvinistic rants..... you will never change. Actually your pretty funny.

 

[WestminsterMan]

Yea I heard that too. 20 yrs a go the Presbyterian Pastor down the street decided to roll that way & thus neglected his doctrines....why should I teach them Doctrine or confessions of faith since I have the bible. Thus he slid on the slippery slope till the church closed its doors due to the anything goes liberal stance he took. A foreclosure sign sits on the doors of the church.No thanks!

I'm not so sure that church foreclosures are do strictly to error in teaching. This is a serious pattern here in the US.

http://www.npr.org/2011/01/31/133303426/church-foreclosures-hard-times-for-gods-work

It may have more to do with the economy and the exorbitant six figure salaries + benefits that many pastors are paid.

Peace!
WM

 

[pinoybaptist]

were there Calvinists or Arminians or Pelagians or Semi-Pelagians or Biblicists or whatnots when Christ declared it was time for Him to be crucified and set His face finally on Jerusalem ?

How about before He was born ?
How about when He was born and walking that tiny dusty spot in that tiny dusty speck in a speck of a speck of galaxy in the wide universe He created ?
How about when He called Abraham out and out of Him created the nation from which He was to come ?
How about when the great One in Three covenanted to love and save an unloveable race when there were yet no stars, no angels in heaven ?

How presumptous can we be to think that God takes sides on how we interpret Scripture on this fallen earth in our fallen minds and create earth bound doctrines and say "the Spirit taught me this".

The fact is that all of us are beholden to grace, and if anyone ever stands in Heaven one day to gaze at the face of the Savior it will be by grace and mercy.

How prideful to put down one brother just because he views Scripture differently from another.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I'm not so sure that church foreclosures are do strictly to error in teaching. This is a serious pattern here in the US.

http://www.npr.org/2011/01/31/133303426/church-foreclosures-hard-times-for-gods-work

It may have more to do with the economy and the exorbitant six figure salaries + benefits that many pastors are paid.

Peace!
WM

Naaa, not this one....its a little church in a little town. When I went there the pastor....his name was Little...Pastor Little would go out into the night to help bring people to Christ. Id see him out at 1130PM banging on doors of the sick, the poor, the in need. Sad that all his work went into the toilet.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

were there Calvinists or Arminians or Pelagians or Semi-Pelagians or Biblicists or whatnots when Christ declared it was time for Him to be crucified and set His face finally on Jerusalem ?

How about before He was born ?
How about when He was born and walking that tiny dusty spot in that tiny dusty speck in a speck of a speck of galaxy in the wide universe He created ?
How about when He called Abraham out and out of Him created the nation from which He was to come ?
How about when the great One in Three covenanted to love and save an unloveable race when there were yet no stars, no angels in heaven ?

How presumptous can we be to think that God takes sides on how we interpret Scripture on this fallen earth in our fallen minds and create earth bound doctrines and say "the Spirit taught me this".

The fact is that all of us are beholden to grace, and if anyone ever stands in Heaven one day to gaze at the face of the Savior it will be by grace and mercy.

How prideful to put down one brother just because he views Scripture differently from another.

Are you referring to me?

 

[webdog]

Are you referring to me?

Guilty conscience?

 

[Old Union Brother]

I may be an unlikely dissenting voice here, but I'll say that the label does not matter in the least.

Probably, at the end of the day, the theology doesn't either -- with one caveat -- without a right understanding of the gospel, a person may have "religiously" bought into a false sense of security and not be truly born anew from above by the power of the Holy Spirit.

I'd suggest that 90+% (or so has been my experience) of our church folk don't really have a clue what the terms even mean, or why they are important, and they are people who love the Lord and are loved by the Lord.

At the end of the day, we have to remember that the arguments we have here are not the end of the world... Church goes on every Sunday with or without our arguments, just as it has for about 2000 years and before that through Israel.

Amen! my wife and I had this very conversation just the other night. In the end what is truly important? The doctrine of Jesus Christ being crucified and him being the perfect sacrifice required for the remission of sins.