Does John 21:21-22 indicate that Jesus has returned?

[Bronconagurski]

In my bible study today I listened to a lecture on Acts 12 by Dr. Freerkson, one of my old Liberty Professors. The VCR still works! Anyway, he talked about why Peter was spared and delivered from prison, while James, the brother of John, was beheaded. He then made the point that we have to submit to the sovereign will of God and leave those things to Him. He brought up the scripture in John 21 where Jesus basically told Peter he would live to be old, then Peter asked what would happen to John. Jesus made a suppostion that if He allowed John to live until His return, that was of no concern to Peter. John then makes it clear that this was not a promise, just a suppostion in the verse 23. But does this supposition indicate that the coming of Christ did indeed take place in the first century? I am a dispy through and through, but this conversation is interesting to me as the Lord talks about His return as if it may be imminent. Any thoughts out there, dispy or reformed?

 

[InTheLight]

Peter asked what would happen to John. Jesus made a suppostion that if He allowed John to live until His return, that was of no concern to Peter. John then makes it clear that this was not a promise, just a suppostion in the verse 23. But does this supposition indicate that the coming of Christ did indeed take place in the first century? I am a dispy through and through, but this conversation is interesting to me as the Lord talks about His return as if it may be imminent. Any thoughts out there, dispy or reformed?

Well, that's one way to look at it, Jesus returned in John's lifetime.

Another way is to think that John is still alive and will be until Jesus returns.

21 When Peter saw him, he asked, “Lord, what about him?”

22 Jesus answered, “If I want him to remain alive until I return, what is that to you? You must follow me.” 23 Because of this, the rumor spread among the believers that this disciple would not die. But Jesus did not say that he would not die; he only said, “If I want him to remain alive until I return, what is that to you?”

Yet another way is that John died and Jesus will come back to earth at some point in the future. I believe this is correct.

 

[Gregory Perry Sr.]

Hope....!

In my bible study today I listened to a lecture on Acts 12 by Dr. Freerkson, one of my old Liberty Professors. The VCR still works! Anyway, he talked about why Peter was spared and delivered from prison, while James, the brother of John, was beheaded. He then made the point that we have to submit to the sovereign will of God and leave those things to Him. He brought up the scripture in John 21 where Jesus basically told Peter he would live to be old, then Peter asked what would happen to John. Jesus made a suppostion that if He allowed John to live until His return, that was of no concern to Peter. John then makes it clear that this was not a promise, just a suppostion in the verse 23. But does this supposition indicate that the coming of Christ did indeed take place in the first century? I am a dispy through and through, but this conversation is interesting to me as the Lord talks about His return as if it may be imminent. Any thoughts out there, dispy or reformed?

Bronco....I am a dispensationalist (love that word)myself. That almost seems like a cuss word to some here in the BB from time to time depending on the argument in progress. The subject of Christ's return should always provide us not only with an abiding source of HOPE but also be a source of absolute motivation to live pure and holy lives prior to His appearing (His "appearing" and His "return" from a dispensationalist viewpoint may be regarded as two distinctly different events). I think that wonderful passage in Titus 2:11-15 pretty much covers it. Christ has not yet returned....but He mosted assuredly will! Maybe today...amen?

Bro.Greg:thumbsup:

 

[Bronconagurski]

Well, that's one way to look at it, Jesus returned in John's lifetime.

Another way is to think that John is still alive and will be until Jesus returns.

21 When Peter saw him, he asked, “Lord, what about him?”

22 Jesus answered, “If I want him to remain alive until I return, what is that to you? You must follow me.” 23 Because of this, the rumor spread among the believers that this disciple would not die. But Jesus did not say that he would not die; he only said, “If I want him to remain alive until I return, what is that to you?”

Yet another way is that John died and Jesus will come back to earth at some point in the future. I believe this is correct.

I agree with the future return.

 

[Bronconagurski]

Bronco....I am a dispensationalist (love that word)myself. That almost seems like a cuss word to some here in the BB from time to time depending on the argument in progress. The subject of Christ's return should always provide us not only with an abiding source of HOPE but also be a source of absolute motivation to live pure and holy lives prior to His appearing (His "appearing" and His "return" from a dispensationalist viewpoint may be regarded as two distinctly different events). I think that wonderful passage in Titus 2:11-15 pretty much covers it. Christ has not yet returned....but He mosted assuredly will! Maybe today...amen?

Bro.Greg:thumbsup:

I hear ya, brother, maybe today. Even so, come Lord Jesus!

 

[RLBosley]

In my bible study today I listened to a lecture on Acts 12 by Dr. Freerkson, one of my old Liberty Professors. The VCR still works! Anyway, he talked about why Peter was spared and delivered from prison, while James, the brother of John, was beheaded. He then made the point that we have to submit to the sovereign will of God and leave those things to Him. He brought up the scripture in John 21 where Jesus basically told Peter he would live to be old, then Peter asked what would happen to John. Jesus made a suppostion that if He allowed John to live until His return, that was of no concern to Peter. John then makes it clear that this was not a promise, just a suppostion in the verse 23. But does this supposition indicate that the coming of Christ did indeed take place in the first century? I am a dispy through and through, but this conversation is interesting to me as the Lord talks about His return as if it may be imminent. Any thoughts out there, dispy or reformed?

In a sense John did live to see the return of Christ:

Revelation 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

Revelation 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

 

[Bronconagurski]

In a sense John did live to see the return of Christ:

Revelation 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

Revelation 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

That's true, brother, never thought of that. That must have been some vision!

 

[Gregory Perry Sr.]

Yeah!

That's true, brother, never thought of that. That must have been some vision!

amen! 22 VERY vivid chapters of vision that ought to be the greatest source of hope a child of God can have of our future!! (I long for it!raying

Even so, Come Lord Jesus!!!:godisgood:

Bro.Greg:thumbs:

 

[John of Japan]

In my bible study today I listened to a lecture on Acts 12 by Dr. Freerkson, one of my old Liberty Professors. The VCR still works! Anyway, he talked about why Peter was spared and delivered from prison, while James, the brother of John, was beheaded. He then made the point that we have to submit to the sovereign will of God and leave those things to Him. He brought up the scripture in John 21 where Jesus basically told Peter he would live to be old, then Peter asked what would happen to John. Jesus made a suppostion that if He allowed John to live until His return, that was of no concern to Peter. John then makes it clear that this was not a promise, just a suppostion in the verse 23. But does this supposition indicate that the coming of Christ did indeed take place in the first century? I am a dispy through and through, but this conversation is interesting to me as the Lord talks about His return as if it may be imminent. Any thoughts out there, dispy or reformed?

The Greek grammar used by Christ (no doubt translated by John from the Aramaic, though) is what is called a 3rd class conditional sentence with the word ean for "if," which means it was a hypothetical case. If Jesus had meant that John really would see the 2nd Coming He would have used a 1st class conditional sentence (the case presumed to be true) with the word ei to mean "if."

 

[Bronconagurski]

The Greek grammar used by Christ (no doubt translated by John from the Aramaic, though) is what is called a 3rd class conditional sentence with the word ean for "if," which means it was a hypothetical case. If Jesus had meant that John really would see the 2nd Coming He would have used a 1st class conditional sentence (the case presumed to be true) with the word ei to mean "if."

Thanks, brother, I thought it might by hypothetical, but did not have the Greek skills to prove the point. I really need to learn Greek and Hebrew.

 

[John of Japan]

Thanks, brother, I thought it might by hypothetical, but did not have the Greek skills to prove the point. I really need to learn Greek and Hebrew.

Glad to be able to give input.

 

[jonathan.borland]

John 21 was probably added after the other chapters on the eve (figuratively speaking) of John's passing, and yes, the fact that Jesus had not yet returned is implicit in part of the reason for this chapter. It may have been John or Timothy afterward who touched up (or we might say completed) the apostolic work of inscripturating the NT canon under the guidance of the HS. Some passages like John 5:3b-4, 7:53-8:11, Mark 16:9-20 could have been added at this time, and eventually were added to manuscripts or collections of mss already in circulation. Of course the big passages at the end of Mark and John would have been identified and added more easily than others tucked away in the Gospels at various places, but eventually the correct text and group of texts (the canon) won out in the midst of incredible vigilance and suspicion against pseudepigraphal and downright heretical works. What we have preserved in most Greek mss is exactly what God wanted us to have.