Does prayer work??

[Rew_10]

Perfect. Omnicisent. Omnipotent. All Powerful.

Before reading any further tell me if all those words describe God.

If you're answer is "yes", then prayer CAN NOT work.

Now please don't get this definition of prayer mixed up with "talking to God". When I pray, I pray in a conversational style and I don't necessarily ask God to do or look over anything.

So, on to the point. Praying for your dog to come home, your mother to be healed of her cancer, or asking for someone to be watched over on a trip can not work if God has the characteristics listed at the top of the post.

If God is omniscient then he knows all of our thoughts and what will become of us. So, do some people think that by praying you are going to petition God to come perform a favor for you?

And if God can be petitioned, where does He draw the line? You prayed that your grandmother would be healed of cancer and she was, so you attribute it to God. But the woman next door has a child die of lukemia at the age of twelve.

And of course if God is omnipotent, then he can heal people, but if he is perfect does he have the ability to change his mind?

I've also had some people say that they pray for God's will to be done. But is there really any need to pray for that? God's Will will be done, no matter what happens.

So, just wanted to get some responses on this idea. Thanks!

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

Prayer does work, my friend. Hezekiah is an example, He was told he would die. He prayed, the Bible says God heard His prayer and gave Him 15 years.

God said 'Call on me and I will answer.'

There are many instances where God did something for someone because He heard their petition.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Rew_10: God's Will will be done, no matter what happens.

HP: You made many assertions in your post but failed to establish any of them Scripturally. Take this one for instance. Where does Scripture state that if it is God’s will it must of necessity happen?

 

[Rew_10]

HP: You made many assertions in your post but failed to establish any of them Scripturally. Take this one for instance. Where does Scripture state that if it is God’s will it must of necessity happen?

Please tell me what stops the will of a perfect, omniscient, omnipotent being.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Rew_10: Please tell me what stops the will of a perfect, omniscient, omnipotent being.

HP: Wicked men and their wicked choices. God’s will is that none would perish and that all would come to repentance. Wicked men refuse to do God’s will.

 

[JamieinNH]

If prayer didn' work why did Jesus pray so much?

Jamie

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

rew,

I encourage you to read the 4th chapter of James. James said that some prayers are not answered because of selfish desire.

Many pray for something to happen only so they will be happy. That is selfish prayer.

 

[Alcott]

Prayer does work, my friend. ... God said 'Call on me and I will answer.'
There are many instances where God did something for someone because He heard their petition.

Do you know of at least one case where such 'petition' did not result in the desired plea?

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

Do you know of at least one case where such 'petition' did not result in the desired plea?

James 4:3 (KJV) Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume [it] upon your lusts. {lusts: or, pleasures}

 

[Amy.G]

Rew:

Perfect. Omnicisent. Omnipotent. All Powerful.

Before reading any further tell me if all those words describe God.

If you're answer is "yes", then prayer CAN NOT work.

You left out a few. Loving......merciful.......a good Father.

Matthew 7
11 If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give good things to those who ask Him!

 

[Amy.G]

It's not God's job to conform to our will. It's our job to conform to His.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Alcott: Do you know of at least one case where such 'petition' did not result in the desired plea?

HP: Another aspect of this is the fact that sometimes God grants our petitions although it may not in fact work for our good. “Ps 106:15 And he gave them their request; but sent leanness into their soul.”

 

[rbell]

Conversation with God, in our feeble minds, often starts out with us asking God to change a circumstance. Sometimes God does so. Other times, God changes us.

Conversing with God continually makes us more like God...and thus aligns our desires more with His.

 

[Rew_10]

HP: Wicked men and their wicked choices. God’s will is that none would perish and that all would come to repentance. Wicked men refuse to do God’s will.

God killed thousands of people Himself! So either God is not perfect or the Bible is not fact or both. And Biblical literalists will jump through hoops to make themselves believe that God AND the Bible are perfect. The Bible DEFINITELY isn't perfect and very plausible arguments can be made that the BIBLICAL God is not perfect.

 

[BobRyan]

Perfect. Omnicisent. Omnipotent. All Powerful.

Before reading any further tell me if all those words describe God.

If you're answer is "yes", then prayer CAN NOT work.

WhaHUH???!

Is that supposed to make sense?

Now please don't get this definition of prayer mixed up with "talking to God". When I pray, I pray in a conversational style and I don't necessarily ask God to do or look over anything.

So, on to the point. Praying for your dog to come home, your mother to be healed of her cancer, or asking for someone to be watched over on a trip can not work if God has the characteristics listed at the top of the post.

Try reading the bible on the subject of prayer and then presenting an informed opinion --- instead.

If God is omniscient then he knows all of our thoughts and what will become of us. So, do some people think that by praying you are going to petition God to come perform a favor for you?

"ASK and you shall receive"...
"You do not have because you do not ask" JAmes 4.
"Whatsoever things you ask in My Name..."
"Hear the case of the unjust judge..."
"hear the case of the persistent neighbor..."

Less smoke -- more fire.

And if God can be petitioned, where does He draw the line? You prayed that your grandmother would be healed of cancer and she was, so you attribute it to God. But the woman next door has a child die of lukemia at the age of twelve.

You talk as one would expect an atheist to speak who had never actually read the Bible.

Recall that in Matt 22 the Sadducees came to Christ with the same kind of "impossible for God to do what HE says He does" argument against the resurrection.

"This woman married seven times because each husband died so quickly -- in the resurrection whose wife will she be?"

And of course if God is omnipotent, then he can heal people, but if he is perfect does he have the ability to change his mind?

I've also had some people say that they pray for God's will to be done. But is there really any need to pray for that? God's Will will be done, no matter what happens.

So, just wanted to get some responses on this idea. Thanks!

Start with the obvious.

#1. It is "tough" to BE God
#2. The Bible spends a lot of time telling us TO pray and showing us how to pray.
#3. God has created a free will universe - by definition that means He is not interested in robot-world.

Read the text -- and think about it.

If we could "divine" the case of each human as to when and why the infinite mind of God would answer one way or another -- we would BE God.

Think about it.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

And Biblical literalists will jump through hoops to make themselves believe that God AND the Bible are perfect. The Bible DEFINITELY isn't perfect and very plausible arguments can be made that the BIBLICAL God is not perfect.

This is the vanilla everyday argument one can get twice on Tuesdays from an Agnostic or an Atheist.

God "IS Love" - "God so LOVED the world that HE GAVE"

God MADE Adam and Eve in a sinLESS harmLESS peaceFUL PERFECT world. LOVE provided that no harm, no carnage, starvation, disease, extinction process was to be used "in a natural selection style mythology" - rather GOD SPOKE and it was!

Those who trade in the God of Love in the Bible for the "death disease, predation, extermination" form of "And God said let there be animals" - have created their own demons totally outside of the Bible.

As we see in Job 1 - God works on a basis of JUSTICE and authority. Satan comes representing THIS WORLD - as in 2Cor 4 he is called "the god of the World". The CONSEQUENCE of Adam handing the keys over to Satan has been the woe and ruin of mankind for age upon age.

Blaming God for the sin of man - is not logical.

Blaming God for the fact that the sin of mankind results in separation -- is not logical.

For reason to prevail - you have to take some reasonable first-steps.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[rbell]

The Bible DEFINITELY isn't perfect and very plausible arguments can be made that the BIBLICAL God is not perfect.

And that's our show for tonight! Strike up the banned, Johnny! :laugh:

 

[Rew_10]

This is the vanilla everyday argument one can get twice on Tuesdays from an Agnostic or an Atheist.

God "IS Love" - "God so LOVED the world that HE GAVE"

God MADE Adam and Eve in a sinLESS harmLESS peaceFUL PERFECT world. LOVE provided that no harm, no carnage, starvation, disease, extinction process was to be used "in a natural selection style mythology" - rather GOD SPOKE and it was!

Those who trade in the God of Love in the Bible for the "death disease, predation, extermination" form of "And God said let there be animals" - have created their own demons totally outside of the Bible.

As we see in Job 1 - God works on a basis of JUSTICE and authority. Satan comes representing THIS WORLD - as in 2Cor 4 he is called "the god of the World". The CONSEQUENCE of Adam handing the keys over to Satan has been the woe and ruin of mankind for age upon age.

Blaming God for the sin of man - is not logical.

Blaming God for the fact that the sin of mankind results in separation -- is not logical.

For reason to prevail - you have to take some reasonable first-steps.

In Christ,

Bob

Bob, you will never be able to tell what is logical.

God MEANT for man to have sin, and it is amazingly obvious. This of course is concerning a literal look at Genesis, which I don't subscribe. But, God chose to make the focal point of the Garden of Eden a tree.

So, just imagine you are in a garden and every where you go you can still see this beautiful tree with ripe fruit hanging from it. But, of course, God TOLD you not to ever eat off of this tree. With the same childish mind that inhabited Adam and Eve, you too would have eaten off the tree. Just as any infant would do if you told them not to touch a candle and then set it in the playpen with them.

And Bob, please don't ever preach to me about what is logical and what is not. You see this account as historical fact!

 

[BobRyan]

God places the Tree of life near the Tree of Knowledge of good and evil.

Adam and Eve are not "so hungry they just gotta eat" from the forbidden tree.

They simply have to exercise free will - and choose not to sin.

The idea "they MUST sin if it is EASY to choose sin" is never the Bible model. Nor do we instruct our children to follow such flawed logic.

As it turns out - the Bible is true, the gospel is true, Christ DID die for us "literally" and What the NT writers said about the Gen 1-6 "details" does not fit atheist darwinism - but is true anyway.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

God killed thousands of people Himself! So either God is not perfect or the Bible is not fact or both. And Biblical literalists will jump through hoops to make themselves believe that God AND the Bible are perfect. The Bible DEFINITELY isn't perfect and very plausible arguments can be made that the BIBLICAL God is not perfect.

rew,

Your profile says you are a Baptist and that you love God, but your post here says something entirely different.

Now, according to Baptist Board rules, I cannot out and out question your Salvatiion. But I don't have to, your words here declare whose servant you are.

A Christian will not make such statements as 'either God is not perfect or the Bible is not fact or both'. Your words betray you.

I will pray for you.