Does RCC Recognise Orthodox/Protestant Churches?

[DaChaser1]

As being valid and teaching the Gospel?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

As being valid and teaching the Gospel?

Seriously....do you care? I don't. Its probably left up to each individual priest. For example, If you go to a priest to marry you & your betrothed is not Catholic....will they marry you. Yea sure, as long as the betrothed promises to raise the kids as RC's....so whats that tell you?

 

[DaChaser1]

Seriously....do you care? I don't. Its probably left up to each individual priest. For example, If you go to a priest to marry you & your betrothed is not Catholic....will they marry you. Yea sure, as long as the betrothed promises to raise the kids as RC's....so whats that tell you?

IF the RCC does recognise any other church as valid, HOW can it be "true/only Church!"

 

[billwald]

Last I heard the RCC considers orthodox protestant churches as "separated brothers." The Christian Reformed Church just signed a truce with the RCC.

Of course, all this has nothing to do with Baptists.

 

[Gold Dragon]

Here is the section of the Catechism of the RCC dealing with protestants, orthodox and other historical Christian schisms. There are additional ecumenical documents specifically dealing with the Orthodox and Lutherans.

Catechism of the Catholic Church : Paragraph 3. THE CHURCH IS ONE, HOLY, CATHOLIC, AND APOSTOLIC

Wounds to unity

817 In fact, "in this one and only Church of God from its very beginnings there arose certain rifts, which the Apostle strongly censures as damnable. But in subsequent centuries much more serious dissensions appeared and large communities became separated from full communion with the Catholic Church - for which, often enough, men of both sides were to blame."269 The ruptures that wound the unity of Christ's Body - here we must distinguish heresy, apostasy, and schism270 - do not occur without human sin:

Where there are sins, there are also divisions, schisms, heresies, and disputes. Where there is virtue, however, there also are harmony and unity, from which arise the one heart and one soul of all believers.271

818 "However, one cannot charge with the sin of the separation those who at present are born into these communities [that resulted from such separation] and in them are brought up in the faith of Christ, and the Catholic Church accepts them with respect and affection as brothers .... All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church."272

819 "Furthermore, many elements of sanctification and of truth"273 are found outside the visible confines of the Catholic Church: "the written Word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope, and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, as well as visible elements."274 Christ's Spirit uses these Churches and ecclesial communities as means of salvation, whose power derives from the fullness of grace and truth that Christ has entrusted to the Catholic Church. All these blessings come from Christ and lead to him,275 and are in themselves calls to "Catholic unity."276

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

IF the RCC does recognise any other church as valid, HOW can it be "true/only Church!"

you will have to ask thinking stuff....in my day they considered themselves the one true church & old habits die hard. It may be that they accept us as fallen Catholics.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Last I heard the RCC considers orthodox protestant churches as "separated brothers." The Christian Reformed Church just signed a truce with the RCC.

Of course, all this has nothing to do with Baptists.

How nice for the CRC to do that ....dont they also embrace women into the clergy?

 

[Zenas]

As being valid and teaching the Gospel?

DeChaser, the answer to your OP is different for Orthodox and Protestant. In 2007 a Vatican agency called the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith published a statement called “RESPONSES TO SOME QUESTIONS REGARDING CERTAIN ASPECTS OF THE DOCTRINE ON THE CHURCH.” This agency used to be headed by Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger before he became Pope Benedict XVI.

Concerning Orthodox churches, the statement said they are valid churches but defective because they do not recognize the successor to Peter as their visible head.

Concerning Protestant churches, the statement called them ecclesial communities but not valid churches because their orders are either defective or nonexistent. This in turn means they cannot have a valid Eucharist which is the central element of any true church.

The whole statement is a short easy read and it may be found here: http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/c...ith_doc_20070629_responsa-quaestiones_en.html

 

[billwald]

Some CRC classis (jurisdictions) accept female preachers, some don't.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Some CRC classis (jurisdictions) accept female preachers, some don't.

My wifes kin are either strict Dutch Reformed or Orthodox Presbyterian.....that would never happen there however in PCUSA churches (we consider apostate) it happens all the time.

sorry but I have a bad taste in my mouth for any protestant church that cuddles up to the RCC ...especially the reformed ones.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

DeChaser, the answer to your OP is different for Orthodox and Protestant. In 2007 a Vatican agency called the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith published a statement called “RESPONSES TO SOME QUESTIONS REGARDING CERTAIN ASPECTS OF THE DOCTRINE ON THE CHURCH.” This agency used to be headed by Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger before he became Pope Benedict XVI.

Concerning Orthodox churches, the statement said they are valid churches but defective because they do not recognize the successor to Peter as their visible head.

Concerning Protestant churches, the statement called them ecclesial communities but not valid churches because their orders are either defective or nonexistent. This in turn means they cannot have a valid Eucharist which is the central element of any true church.

The whole statement is a short easy read and it may be found here: http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/c...ith_doc_20070629_responsa-quaestiones_en.html

What of marriages conducted by Protestant Pastors in those churches....are they recognized? I'm thinking no.

 

[Zenas]

What of marriages conducted by Protestant Pastors in those churches....are they recognized? I'm thinking no.

Yes, they are. Same thing with baptisms.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

What of marriages conducted by Protestant Pastors in those churches....are they recognized? I'm thinking no.

You are actually talking about several different things. Which do not apply to the standing of diffferent Christian Churches. Valid, Licit etc... are different things and are considered seperately.

The Catholic Church considers itself to be the same Church Jesus established through his apostles. As far as christian churches go they have differing views of each churches.

The Orthodox/Coptic Churches they view in Schism from the one true church. These hold to the deposit of faith and are mostly in line with Catholic Church teaching.

As far as the Protestant Churches they consider them to teach certain Heresies. However, where their teaching is in line with Catholic Teaching such as Trinitarian view of God and the hypostatic union, virgin birth, death, and bodily resurrection the Catholic Church considers them to be in union with the one church. Because on these items they are actually carring on the deposit of faith left by the Apostles where they are in line with Catholic Teaching. And thus they are inheritors of the faith passed down by the Catholic Church. Thus protestants are truelly Christian unless they depart from the basics of faith of which some I already mentioned. The Catholic Church does not hold that modern protestants hold the guilt of their founders who grow up in these traditions but contends that the reformers sinned against God by seperating themselves from the one true chruch and that they will be held accountable. As for Chrisitans in these faith traditions in modern times the Catholic Church sees as true Christians though not in full communion with the Catholic Church.

As for marriage. Catholics believe you can marry a non-Catholic from any faith background as long as the non Catholic partner agrees to be open to having children and raising them in the Catholic faith. Though this is not encouraged it is permitted.

 

[DaChaser1]

You are actually talking about several different things. Which do not apply to the standing of diffferent Christian Churches. Valid, Licit etc... are different things and are considered seperately.

The Catholic Church considers itself to be the same Church Jesus established through his apostles. As far as christian churches go they have differing views of each churches.

The Orthodox/Coptic Churches they view in Schism from the one true church. These hold to the deposit of faith and are mostly in line with Catholic Church teaching.

As far as the Protestant Churches they consider them to teach certain Heresies. However, where their teaching is in line with Catholic Teaching such as Trinitarian view of God and the hypostatic union, virgin birth, death, and bodily resurrection the Catholic Church considers them to be in union with the one church. Because on these items they are actually carring on the deposit of faith left by the Apostles where they are in line with Catholic Teaching. And thus they are inheritors of the faith passed down by the Catholic Church. Thus protestants are truelly Christian unless they depart from the basics of faith of which some I already mentioned. The Catholic Church does not hold that modern protestants hold the guilt of their founders who grow up in these traditions but contends that the reformers sinned against God by seperating themselves from the one true chruch and that they will be held accountable. As for Chrisitans in these faith traditions in modern times the Catholic Church sees as true Christians though not in full communion with the Catholic Church.

As for marriage. Catholics believe you can marry a non-Catholic from any faith background as long as the non Catholic partner agrees to be open to having children and raising them in the Catholic faith. Though this is not encouraged it is permitted.

How can the RCC recognize at all though ANY protestant church, since trent made it clear that denial of the truths such as papacy/salvation/baptism/Eucherist means that onw would be an Apostate!

 

[WestminsterMan]

How can the RCC recognize at all though ANY protestant church, since trent made it clear that denial of the truths such as papacy/salvation/baptism/Eucherist means that onw would be an Apostate!

TS addressed that in the fourth paragraph.

WM

 

[Thinkingstuff]

How can the RCC recognize at all though ANY protestant church, since trent made it clear that denial of the truths such as papacy/salvation/baptism/Eucherist means that onw would be an Apostate!

I did indeed answer your question in the 4th paragraph. However, I would like to add one other thing. Often fundalmentalist Protestants believe that you must believe exactly as they do to be "saved". However, The Catholic church holds that a relationship with Jesus is essential and it is that which determines your position with him. Whatever you choose to believe about the Pope doesn't affect your salvation. Whatever you believe about baptism doesn't affect salvation as long as you are properly baptized.
What must you believe to be saved? Depends on your particular cirucumstance and Catholics don't believe in Judging someone else's eternity. However, it is generally held that to be a real Christian you must believe in these things:
God is a Trinity
Jesus is a hypostatic union of Divinity and Humanity (perfectly both)
That he became incarnate through the virgin Mary by the power of the Holy Spirit and was born while she was yet a virgin
That Jesus suffered under Pontius Pilate
He was crucified for our sins
that he truelly died
that on the third day rose again (under his own power) from the dead
That he ascended into heaven and is currently seated at the right hand of the father
that he will surely come again to judge the living and the dead
that the Holy Spirit is a part of that Trinity God head (not some sort of force) as his own person
that there is a universality of believers
That true believers should be in communion with each other
that based on Jesus' work we are truelly forgiven by God and made right in his sight
that there will be a bodily ressurrection for us
and that there is life ever lasting

this is the fundamentals or the basic things of Christian belief. Any departure from these basic things is to fall into serious heresy and excludes one from Christianity.

 

[billwald]

>Originally Posted by DaChaser1
>How can the RCC recognize at all though ANY protestant church, since trent made it clear that denial of the truths such as papacy/salvation/baptism/Eucherist means that onw would be an Apostate!


Catholic doctrine, like Bible covenants and the US Constitution, is cumulative. The entire corpus must be considered thus your argument is null and void.

 

[DaChaser1]

I did indeed answer your question in the 4th paragraph. However, I would like to add one other thing. Often fundalmentalist Protestants believe that you must believe exactly as they do to be "saved". However, The Catholic church holds that a relationship with Jesus is essential and it is that which determines your position with him. Whatever you choose to believe about the Pope doesn't affect your salvation. Whatever you believe about baptism doesn't affect salvation as long as you are properly baptized.
What must you believe to be saved? Depends on your particular cirucumstance and Catholics don't believe in Judging someone else's eternity. However, it is generally held that to be a real Christian you must believe in these things:
God is a Trinity
Jesus is a hypostatic union of Divinity and Humanity (perfectly both)
That he became incarnate through the virgin Mary by the power of the Holy Spirit and was born while she was yet a virgin
That Jesus suffered under Pontius Pilate
He was crucified for our sins
that he truelly died
that on the third day rose again (under his own power) from the dead
That he ascended into heaven and is currently seated at the right hand of the father
that he will surely come again to judge the living and the dead
that the Holy Spirit is a part of that Trinity God head (not some sort of force) as his own person
that there is a universality of believers
That true believers should be in communion with each other
that based on Jesus' work we are truelly forgiven by God and made right in his sight
that there will be a bodily ressurrection for us
and that there is life ever lasting

this is the fundamentals or the basic things of Christian belief. Any departure from these basic things is to fall into serious heresy and excludes one from Christianity.

Friends of mine have been told by former priests that since they were rebapised into a different church. that would mean were lost, unsaved, per RCC teaching!
As by recanting on RCC theology, shut off saving grace!

 

[DaChaser1]

>Originally Posted by DaChaser1
>How can the RCC recognize at all though ANY protestant church, since trent made it clear that denial of the truths such as papacy/salvation/baptism/Eucherist means that onw would be an Apostate!


Catholic doctrine, like Bible covenants and the US Constitution, is cumulative. The entire corpus must be considered thus your argument is null and void.

MUCH of its doctrines comes from extra biblical sourcing...

the Gospel itself is main thing, and the RCC does NOT teach the Biblical One!

 

[Thinkingstuff]

Friends of mine have been told by former priests that since they were rebapised into a different church. that would mean were lost, unsaved, per RCC teaching!
As by recanting on RCC theology, shut off saving grace!

This is a different issue. A Catholic becoming Protestant. Not a modern protestant growing up in a protestant denomination to which I responded. Your question didn't ask about Catholics becoming Protestants but whether Catholics consider that protestants can be saved. However, since you now advanced the discussion to what of Catholics who become Protestants I will answer. The truth of the Matter is it depends on the situation. A Catholic who really knows their faith and stubornly goes against it in full knowledge of what they are doing is considered by the Church to be in vincible ignorance. Ie

ignorance is termed vincible if it can be dispelled by the use of "moral diligence"...When ignorance is deliberately aimed at and fostered, it is said to be affected, not because it is pretended, but rather because it is sought for by the agent so that he may not have to relinquish his purpose.

Then your friend would be correct as would the priest however if you have invincible ignorance

when a person is unable to rid himself of it notwithstanding the employment of moral diligence, that is, such as under the circumstances is, morally speaking, possible and obligatory...Such ignorance is obviously involuntary and therefore not imputable...Invincible ignorance, whether of the law or of the fact, is always a valid excuse and excludes sin. The evident reason is that neither this state nor the act resulting therefrom is voluntary

Then your friend and his/her preists would be wrong. Since many Catholics who leave the Church don't properly understand their faith (a catachism problem) its not imputable on them when they become protestants. What the Catholic Church believes is that these due to their ignorance actually are living the Catholic faith (that of which was passed down to the protestants).

However, in the first case if the person repents then they are forgiven.

Ie the more you know the more accountable you are.