Does Romans 8 support Calvinism's Total Depravity?

YOU SAID: "One must try hard to live right and to have faith. All who make themselves clean from evil will be useful, and thus, pleasing to God."


Name one human who has EVER walked the face of this Earth who has ever even come remotely close to acheiving this besides the Lord Jesus Christ!

You answer your own question about Total Depravity with this statement my friend!

 

This is really disheartening. No one can make himself clean from evil. Our best efforts are like infected bandages wrapped over our sins as we stand before God. Only Christ can make us righteous.

As for your question, those who are spiritually dead in sin cannot do anything spiritual. Their only hope is to be made alive.

 

Seems to me Noah, Abraham, Elijah, Elisha, even that low down Jonah, and many more have met that criteria. Even though, unlike Jesus, they may have sinned, God counted to each of them's account their FAITH as if it is their RIGHTEOUSNESS!.

 

This is really disheartening. No one can make himself clean from evil. Our best efforts are like infected bandages wrapped over our sins as we stand before God. Only Christ can make us righteous.

As for your question, those who are spiritually dead in sin cannot do anything spiritual. Their only hope is to be made alive. </font>[/QUOTE]Do you still not understand ATONEMENT? By the atonement of Jesus, the Christ, SINS are no longer Charged against us! JESUS ALONE PAID THE PENALTY, the PRICE OF WHICH IS DEATH, ONCE, FOR ALL SIN! WE ARE NO LONGER DEAD IN SIN BECAUSE THE PENALTY HAS BEEN REMOVED BY JESUS' ATONEMENT FOR SIN!

JESUS' ATONEMENT FOR SIN IS A FINISHED WORK OF GOD FOR MAN'S SALVATION. THE PENALTY OF DEATH HAS BEEN PAID!

God's criteria for man's salvation is FAITH ALONE, nothing else just FAITH. He does not demand that we come to him "clean and holy" for no man can do that! We come to him through FAITH, the only thing that man can have, and while remaining in our sinful state, He through HIS Holy Spirit, convicts us of our sins, and empowers us to confess the sins we commit and repent from doing them, thus "cleansing us from all unrighteousness.

 

First:

Can God sin? No. Why? Because it is contrary to His holy nature.

Why then do you believe man enjoys libertine free will since God does not enjoy it? Clearly, His attitudes, thoughts, actions, and motives are all limited by His own character and nature. How can man, who is a slave to sin, unable to understand spiritual things, a hater of God, by nature an object of wrath, do anything toward His own salvation? What exegetical evidence to you have that says that saving faith is intrinsic to man's intrinsic character or nature?

Second: Has any Arminian on this board ever bothered to read the Remonstrance and the Opinions?

I think I will quote for you:

Man does not have saving faith of himself, nor out of the powers of his free will, since in the state of sin he is able of himself and by himself neither to think, will, or do any good (which would indeed to be saving good, the most prominent of which is saving faith). It is necessary therefore that by God in Christ through His Holy Spirit he be regenerated and renewed in intellect, affections, will, and in all his powers, so that he might be able t understand, reflect upon, will and carry out the good things which pertain to salvation.

The will in the fallen state, before calling, does not have the power and the freedom to will any saving good. And therefore we deny that the freedom to will saving good as well as evil is present to the will in every state.

I bring this out, because it occurs to me that true Arminians actually believe in total inability. However, by ultimately saying that the final arbiter is man's will and not God's grace, we Reformed persons object that this is inconsistent.

Third:

Why does anybody believe? What does John 6:44 mean?

 

Well said whatever!

With Calvin the "head of their church", they cannot see the truth in scripture.

 

Umm ... I think you need to read it again. And Calvin is not the head of our church.

 

Sorry for being unclear. Paul is discussing how Timothy, as a young Christian leader, should live. He is not discussing how unbelievers can become Christians. He is not addressing whether those still in the flesh can respond to the gospel.

 

First question - there are varying opinions about this, but I think the vessels in this passage are all believers.

Second question - of course believers are responsible for purifying ourselves. That does not mean that we are able to. "Who will deliver me from this body of death?" Hint - it won't be me.

Now here's a question for you, one that relates to the original depravity question - can a person be held responsible to do something that he is unable to do?

 

Quick answers:

1. No - completely different context.

2. Paul says it will be Jesus delivering him, not Jesus helping Paul deliver himself.

3. Being able to respond (or answer, or give account) is not the same as being able to perform the required action. So, that didn't really answer the question.

4. If the deaf and crippled person is accountable to me, and if he is deaf and crippled on his own account and not mine, then my condemnation of him for not responding would certainly be just. We come into the world spiritually dead on our own account, and our condemnation for that would be just, even though we cannot undo our spiritual death.

 

Salvation is about mercy, not justice. By moving into the category of justice you beg the question that we deserve to be given the ability if we do not have it. God is unjust, therefore, because we deserve to be given this ability.

Why does a person deserve this? What has the sinner in himself that can merit this?