does size really matter?

I would disagree with this statement. The reality of the churches in acts were small house churches but I would not say that was due to a preference.

 

Who is MgGee?

Seems like we don't have enough information to know if the first church at Jerusalem, which had 1000s of believers, considered themselves to be one church or met anywhere as a church. Though I'll grant you that there is little information that church buildings existed for quite a while after Pentecost.

 

I think he is referring to J. Vernon McGee

Joseph Botwinick

 

Small congregations very rarely have the financial resources to support a pastor who has a good university and seminary education (Ph.D. from Stanford University and D.Min. from Princeton Theological Seminary or the equivalent).

If you yourself have a good knowledge of the Bible and little tolerance of careless, off-the-cuff sermons prepared by a man who doesn’t have the education to prepare a good sermon even if he took the time to try may be unbearable.

Small congregations very rarely have the financial resources to own a state of the art church facility. In many cities land is now extremely expensive, buildings are very expensive, and church equipment costs a fortune these days:

$1,250,000 or more for a full size pipe organ
$200,000 or more for the sound system
$90,000 or more for a quality full size grand piano
$75,000 or more for video equipment

If you have a very sensitive ear, the quality of the sound in the sanctuary can be crucial for a pleasant experience in worship. High quality sound requires high quality equipment, a sanctuary designed by an architect who is especially knowledgeable of acoustical design, including the reflective properties of different kinds of wall coverings, floor coverings, ceiling treatments, woods and metals. And, of course, even if the church is so equipped physically, unless the minister of music is very well educated and very talented and a full-time employee of the church, the most expensive sanctuary and equipment will go to waste. And let’s not forget the professional pianist and organist, the cost of maintaining the organ and the piano, etc.

And if you want your children to be enrolled in a topnotch Sunday school program, you will want to be sure that the Sunday school superintendent has a master’s degree in Christian education from a school that is well know for the quality of its Christian education program.

Quality facilities require quality care by a custodial staff with many years experience in caring for a fine church facility. The annual church budget is going to be up in the eight figures and the business manager should have an M.B. degree from an exceptionally fine school and at least several years experience.

None of this is possible with a small congregation.

And do you really want the people in your community see you get out of your new Mercedes Benz and walk into a building that looks more like a chicken coupe than church?

 

Some good points, Craigbythesea. Naturally, I was thinking more on the lines of missionary support.

Can you imagine how many churches of 30 it takes to put a missionary with a faith board on an expensive field? If the church supports 10 missionaries at $100 apiece (average, or even much below average in some circles), that is $1000 a month, or if there are ten families in the church, $100 a month per family. At that rate, if the missionary needs, say, $4000 a month for an Asian field, he needs to deputize 40 supporting churches. That's a drag--believe me!

Or if you are in a denomination, think how little such a church can usually contribute, say, to the Lottie Moon fund?

 

The first mega-church consisted of about 3 million people.

Led by pastor Moses.

MR

 

The larger question becomes - Has a forum run its course when it starts discussing whether it is too big or small?

Aye Aye Aye.

 

oh help...

Are we worshiping God or money here? Is worship supposed to be a consumer-oriented 'pleasant experience' or the gathering together of believers to pray and praise God?

I never needed a minister of education with some kind of degree in this or that to teach my children the Bible stories or to read the full Bible to them as they got older. We did that ourselves, as a family.

And you know something -- in small churches the folks themselves can clean up. We do it everyday at home and it's no big thing to add a little more once in awhile.

In the meantime, a really nice keyboard costs around $10,000 and requires almost no maintenance. And it will do organ, piano, flutes, trumpets -- even bird chirps and ocean waves!

Give me a small group of committed believers anytime, and if they sing off-key, God bless them. I would rather have a few men who knew the Bible well than a minister who is so steeped in the doctrines he has been taught that he ignores parts of the Bible in order to support those doctrines.

I would rather gather and worship with a small group of humble, earnest believers than with the crowds of any large church anywhere.

I appreciate knowing the people I worship with -- so I can be there when someone is sick or hurting or joyful, or whatever. And it's wonderful knowing they will be there for us.

I'd rather have the care of people who know me than the 'care' of a 'minister of care' and some anonymous food baskets and such.

You know when someone in a small group is putting on a face or wandering a bit and you haven't the slightest idea about the other hundreds or thousands in a large church -- you probably don't even know their names.

 

Craigbythesea, please, please tell me your post was a joke.

 

Helen all I can add to your comments is ...AMEN

Since being saved at the age of 21 in 1962, God Has allowed me to be both a member and a pastor of Quote: large churches and small Chruchs, and I have found that in both it's the quality and not the quanity of things that make up a good worship service.

A wise old patriarch of the Old Testament summed it up far better than I ever could in his testemony found in Eccleiastes.....vanity vanity..

And his closing words are "Let us hear the conclusssion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep His commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. For God shall bring every work into judgement, with every secret thing, weither it be good, or weither it be evil." (Ecc.12:14)


arkie pastor

 

Ugh. A keyboard can mimic a good pipe organ like I can mimic a Matisse.

 

The size of the chuch makes no difference in any regard, of course.

Some of my greatest "church moments" have been in a church of less than a dozen have been in churches over 1000.

God's blessing is not limited by the size of the church.

 

please folk,

Craig's post was a litle dose of satire. Sadly, it is true to a degree which I guess is what makes good satire.

 

Mine about missions wasn't satire.

Not that my church is very big. None are in Japan. Though I know a BBF "superchurch" in Yokohama that runs 160 or so.

 

I agree with John of Japan.

The truly legitimate reason for having a larger church is so that it can support more ministries and more missionaries. We are supposed to be sending people out to preach the gospel, that is THE Commission that Christ gave His church.

It's a nice thought to have a tiny little cozy community of a dozen or so friends who meet together each week....."us four and no more" though does not fulfill the Great Commission very effectively. Money is not what we should live for, but money is necessary for the work of the ministry today.

I do think that when a church grows to "mega" size than it would serve its purpose better to begin satellite churches in outlying communities and start building up those areas of ministry as well.

 

There are strengths and weaknesses to large churches.
There are strengths and weaknesses to mid-sized churches.
There are strengths and weaknesses to small churches.

Large, mid-sized and small are arbitrary depending on the speaker. Some may consider a 300 person church to be a large church while others would consider that same church to be small or mid.

The preffered size of a church is not an issue discussed in scripture.

 

Very true, GD.

and I suppose that based on the area of the country, a really small church could fulfill the Great Commission with only a few people. But I do think that a church in any given area should try to become large enough to support at least one missionary somewhere. I think also that part of the Great Commission includes each church sending out some of its own people as missionaries.