Andre -- I appreciate your effort to explain this to me. But let's see what Wright was talking about (though he obviously doesn't know it). 1) We have a PHYSICAL inheritance in heaven that we cannot "come into" until we are raptured bodily to heaven. This in no way contradicts the biblical teaching that "to be absent from the flesh is to be present [spiritually] with the Lord."Andre said:Here is some material from NT Wright that addresses this (as well as addressing other relevant issues):
The whole text of Rev 6 is so charged with symbolic imagery that it is difficult to see it as expressing literal truth - references to a lamb, a horse whose rider is named death, star falling to the earth even the strange notion of disembodied souls resting under a physical altar.
I think one might be stretching things to see, in this obviously symbollic and allegorized context, the cry of these souls as evidence that the redeemed dead go to a conscious state immediately upon death. I suggest that it is an allegorical device, not intended to express the actual state of affairs of the redeemed dead. After all, if this is literal, and one believes the souls of the redeemed dead in Heaven are immaterial, what are they all doing crammed under a material altar?
2) The souls under the altar are NOT "awakening." They are fresh martyrs of the tribulation. These souls had not believed on Christ that they might avoid the tribulation (2Thes 2:10). In fact, when you see their "fellowservants" come up to heaven in Rev 7:9-12, you will see that they praise and worship God even having a "song of praise" (7:10) to "sing" before the throne. Far from being allegory, these are the eye witness testimony of John of actual events!
BTW -- it is called "The Revelation," not because it hides the truth from believers but because it REVEALS the truth but only to those who "to whom it is given" (Mt 13:11-14, 1Cor 2:7).
skypair