Downsizing the Ten Commandments

[DHK]

You with your Seventh Day Sabbath and all, are Sundayists as much as are the Sunday-worshippers, because you bestow on the day of the lord Sun, the virtue, the purpose and the service God intended for the Sabbath and through Jesus Christ in the rising of Him from dead, gave it, and no other day.

Slander is not needed here.
If you worship on the Sabbath, then accordingly you worship the planet of Saturn. Is this what you are saying? That is what "Saturday" is.
Amy is correct. The Lord rose on the first day of the week, which is Sunday. The last day of the week is Saturday which is the Sabbath. These days cannot be refuted.
One other quirk in your theology is the "rest" of Jesus. Jesus never rested during his death, after his death, or at anytime before his resurrection. You would have a hard time proving that. His body lay three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. But that doesn't mean that God (Christ) was dead.
No, during that time he went to paradise and led captivity captive. He led the OT saints to Heaven. That is not rest it is work.
During that time he went and proclaimed his victory to the prisoners in hades. That is not rest; it is work. There is no indication of rest before his resurrection. He rose the third day--Sunday--the first day of the week. There is no indication of rest. In fact on that very day he appeared to Mary Magdalene, and then to others. That also is not rest.
So where do you get this idea of rest from?

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Amy.G:
"I put emphasis the part where Jesus said, "and learn of me". We can read the bible and learn His customs and His comands and use His walk as to how we ought to conduct our lives as Christians. "

GE:

Do you see how short-sighted you are - how 'man-centred'?
Put emphasis on the part where Jesus said, "and learn of me". We can read the bible and learn His customs and His comands and use His walk as to how, HE, ought to have conducted HIS, life as the Christ, which thing He put in His own words something like 'in the roll it is written of Me', and, 'I came to do Thy will', and 'to magnify the Law'. Everything Christ did before the Sacrifice of Himself was to show How He would excecute the will of God; the acme of His so-doing, was to rise from the dead, "... in His own (having) entered into rest as God".

 

[Amy.G]

Amy.G:
"I put emphasis the part where Jesus said, "and learn of me". We can read the bible and learn His customs and His comands and use His walk as to how we ought to conduct our lives as Christians. "

GE:

Do you see how short-sighted you are - how 'man-centred'?
Put emphasis on the part where Jesus said, "and learn of me". We can read the bible and learn His customs and His comands and use His walk as to how, HE, ought to have conducted HIS, life as the Christ, which thing He put in His own words something like 'in the roll it is written of Me', and, 'I came to do Thy will', and 'to magnify the Law'. Everything Christ did before the Sacrifice of Himself was to show How He would excecute the will of God; the acme of His so-doing, was to rise from the dead, "... in His own (having) entered into rest as God".

GE, I have no idea what you are talking about. You have quoted someone else, not me (music4him). Please address your objections to her. I do not observe the OT Sabbath. Sorry if you think I'm unchristian, but I observe the Lord's day of resurrection, which is Sunday as did the early church.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Slander is not needed here.
If you worship on the Sabbath, then accordingly you worship the planet of Saturn. Is this what you are saying? That is what "Saturday" is.
Amy is correct. The Lord rose on the first day of the week, which is Sunday. The last day of the week is Saturday which is the Sabbath. These days cannot be refuted.
One other quirk in your theology is the "rest" of Jesus. Jesus never rested during his death, after his death, or at anytime before his resurrection. You would have a hard time proving that. His body lay three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. But that doesn't mean that God (Christ) was dead.
No, during that time he went to paradise and led captivity captive. He led the OT saints to Heaven. That is not rest it is work.
During that time he went and proclaimed his victory to the prisoners in hades. That is not rest; it is work. There is no indication of rest before his resurrection. He rose the third day--Sunday--the first day of the week. There is no indication of rest. In fact on that very day he appeared to Mary Magdalene, and then to others. That also is not rest.
So where do you get this idea of rest from?

DHK, I cannot believe my own eyes! Are you not a Baptist? Because I didn't know Baptists believe what you have here penned down as evidence against yourself I should reckon?!

Besides your references to Peter are irrelevant.

But plainly you havn't paid attention to what my position is, because your representation of it here, in every respect is simply incorrect.

One thing I am resented by SDAs is the fact I renounce the very notion Jesus 'rested in the tomb'. (Not that I agree with your misapplication of Peter in this regard.) For the books: JESUS RESTED IN RISING FROM THE DEAD. In fact, GOD - God Tri-Une, rested in Christ, in rising from the dead and grave. IT IS MY ARGUMENT FOR THE THE SANCTITY AND VALIDITY OF THE SEVENTH DAY SABBATH FOR CHRISTIANS.

Take me on on that.

A second thing that leaves me dumb is how you, DHK, being a Baptist, can so contradict your own and deservedly well-respected scholar AT Robertson on the issue of the day upon which Christ rose from the dead?
But I have before confronted you with these things. I am still waiting for your answer.

 

[music4Him]

So we learn that Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath, not the servant of it. He did not necessarily keep the Sabbath. "My Father works; and I work."
Never in any verse in the NT is a Gentile commanded to keep the Sabbath.

Wow do you think you can twist hat scripture any more than that? If you can I have a job at a lemon aide stand for you. :laugh:

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

But AT Robertson or no AT Robertson who syas Jesus rose on the Sabbath -quote, "Saturday" - and John Calvyn or no John Calvyn who syas Jesus rose on the Sabbath - and scholars a many or no scholars a many who translate Mt28:1 exactly or to the effect Jesus rose from the dead "IN the Sabbath" and "BEFORE the First Day" : Let it be stated that the LETTER and MEANING of the Word OF GOD, declares, that jesus rose from the dead, "In Sabbath's fulness of daylight (it) being, the First Day of the week before" "Opse de sabbatohn epiphohskousehi eis mian sabbaton".
Take me on on that. And take me on on all the rest of God's Word that is in absolute agreement with that, and destroy me with this one, and I'll disappear from your lives, the greatest laughingstock of your life.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Wow do you think you can twist hat scripture any more than that? If you can I have a job at a lemon aide stand for you. :laugh:

I don't know to which 'Scripture' you might refer, but take care to squander your generosity -- you may need it for yourself soon.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

My apologies, Music4Him -- I got carried away!

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Music4Him, my above apology is re your telling DHK he twisted a Scripture -- not for the below:


Originally Posted by Gerhard Ebersoehn
Amy.G:
"I put emphasis the part where Jesus said, "and learn of me". We can read the bible and learn His customs and His comands and use His walk as to how we ought to conduct our lives as Christians. "

GE:

Do you see how short-sighted you are - how 'man-centred'?
Put emphasis on the part where Jesus said, "and learn of me". We can read the bible and learn His customs and His comands and use His walk as to how, HE, ought to have conducted HIS, life as the Christ, which thing He put in His own words something like 'in the roll it is written of Me', and, 'I came to do Thy will', and 'to magnify the Law'. Everything Christ did before the Sacrifice of Himself was to show How He would excecute the will of God; the acme of His so-doing, was to rise from the dead, "... in His own (having) entered into rest as God".

GE, I have no idea what you are talking about. You have quoted someone else, not me (music4him). Please address your objections to her. I do not observe the OT Sabbath. Sorry if you think I'm unchristian, but I observe the Lord's day of resurrection, which is Sunday as did the early church.

In short, where do you see that I addressed you? Amy.G is quoted here.

 

[music4Him]

Amy.G:
"I put emphasis the part where Jesus said, "and learn of me". We can read the bible and learn His customs and His comands and use His walk as to how we ought to conduct our lives as Christians. "

GE:

Do you see how short-sighted you are - how 'man-centred'?
Put emphasis on the part where Jesus said, "and learn of me". We can read the bible and learn His customs and His comands and use His walk as to how, HE, ought to have conducted HIS, life as the Christ, which thing He put in His own words something like 'in the roll it is written of Me', and, 'I came to do Thy will', and 'to magnify the Law'. Everything Christ did before the Sacrifice of Himself was to show How He would excecute the will of God; the acme of His so-doing, was to rise from the dead, "... in His own (having) entered into rest as God".

AmyG.'s right GE. That was my post and I believe the sabbath starts Friday Evening and ends on Saterday evening and no I'm not a SDA. It just don't take rocket science to figure out when the sabbath is. Its a matter of not only reading the words of Jesus that are written in red, but reading the detail that the author of each book writes too. So far even after Christ ascended to sit on the right hand side of God his father... the Gentiles in the book of Acts 13:42 still seemed to gather on the sabbath.
And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.

And even with Paul it was his custom too.
Act 17:2 And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Nevertheless,

I rejest every claim -- which are two -- contained in this here statement of yours, Musc4Him:

"I observe the Lord's day of resurrection, which is Sunday as did the early church.

The Lord Jesus rose from the dead "In the Sabbath" : Authorised and correct Version. Show me where 'the early church' 'observed "the Lord's day of resurrection" not, on the Seventh Day of the week! Please? Then I would not have to experience this agony to tell my fellow-believers how wrong they are! You think I like it? I'm lying on one side in this dungeon for nearly half a century now!

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Music4Him, your post 70 now has me completely muddled. Do you 'keep' both the Sabbath (Saturday) and, Sunday -- quote, "the Lord's resurrection day"?

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

DHK

"Never in any verse in the NT is a Gentile commanded to keep the Sabbath."

GE:

Because Christians aren't legalists - they do not for everything they believe, demand commandments. Christ is their Law - so the Gentiles kept the Sabbath because of Jesus Christ, and mainly because
He rose from the dead "In Sabbath's-time".

 

[DHK]

DHK

"Never in any verse in the NT is a Gentile commanded to keep the Sabbath."

GE:

Because Christians aren't legalists - they do not for everything they believe, demand commandments. Christ is their Law - so the Gentiles kept the Sabbath because of Jesus Christ, and mainly because
He rose from the dead "In Sabbath's-time".

The Bible is our sole authority for all matters of faith and practice. It is not a matter of being a legalist. It is a matter of what does the Bible teach.
1. The Bible teaches that the Sabbath was given as a sign of the covenant between Israel and Jehovah forever. (Exodus 31). We are not of the nation of Israel. It is not given to the Gentiles.
2. There is no command anywhere to indicate that the Sabbath is given to the Gentilles to keep.
3. Christ arose on the first day of the week which is Sunday. That is an indisputable historical fact.
4. The disciples met on the first day of the week as is evidenced by Acts 20:7

Acts 20:7 And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.

 

[music4Him]

Music4Him, your post 70 now has me completely muddled. Do you 'keep' both the Sabbath (Saturday) and, Sunday -- quote, "the Lord's resurrection day"?

Sabbath Friday evening to Saterday evening yes. Sunday yes I go to church but not necissarily because its "the Lord's resurrection day" but because of the fellowship and the preaching of God's word.

BTW, I find no where in the bible it says the first day of the week ought to replace the sabbath. Where do they get this?

 

[DHK]

BTW, I find no where in the bible it says the first day of the week ought to replace the sabbath. Where do they get this?

The book of Acts is both historical and a book of transtion. It shows a transition from Judaism to full-blown Christianity. At Pentecost they all met at the Temple, and did so for a short time thereafter. But there came a time when they could no longer meet at the temple. Even the church at Jerusalem was eventually forced out of the temple. As the church was scattered both through persecution and through Paul's missionary journey's they were able to use the synagogues. But that was short-lived. Paul then turned to the Gentiles as the Jews rejected Christianity (the gospel message). After that they began to meet wherever they could. Even in Acts 12, when Peter was imprisoned, we find the church meeting in the house of Mary, John Mark's mother. Such places became common. At the end of the epistle to the Romans we find about five churches that are listed that met in homes. The believers met where they could. But it was not in the Temple, and no longer in the Synagogue, and no longer on the Sabbath as time passed. This is evidenced by the following Scriptures:

1 Corinthians 16:2 Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.

Acts 20:7 And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.

The first day of the week is Sunday.
They met on Sunday in honor of the resurrection of Christ.

 

[BobRyan]

The Bible is our sole authority for all matters of faith and practice. It is not a matter of being a legalist. It is a matter of what does the Bible teach.

Now see - we agree on something!!

The Bible says

1. The Sabbath was MADE for mankind Mark 2:27
2. The LORD of the Sabbath is Christ Mark 2:28
3. If you Love "Me KEEP My commandments" John 14:15
4. The Sabbath is to be kept by ALL MANKIND Isaiah 66
For God says "From Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me TO WORSHIP"

If only everyone had such a high value for "What the Bible says" as you have stated above DHK!!

By contrast to "The SEVENTH day" called "THE SABBATH" we have "week-day-one" in the NT called "week-day-one".


1. Christ arose on the first day of the week which is Sunday. That is an indisputable historical fact.
2. A local church met one time for a farewell service on week-day one as we see in Acts 20:7

In Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Music4Him, your post 70 now has me completely muddled. Do you 'keep' both the Sabbath (Saturday) and, Sunday -- quote, "the Lord's resurrection day"?

DHK your question has me confused -- are you implying that you "KEEP" week-day one???

I thought that KEEPING that day in honor of the 4th commanmdnet is the last thing you would do... do you KEEP it in honor of some man-made command instead of God's?

In Christ,

Bob

 

[DHK]

Now see - we agree on something!!

The Bible says

1. The Sabbath was MADE for mankind Mark 2:27
2. The LORD of the Sabbath is Christ Mark 2:28
3. If you Love "Me KEEP My commandments" John 14:15
4. The Sabbath is to be kept by ALL MANKIND Isaiah 66
For God says "From Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me TO WORSHIP"

If only everyone had such a high value for "What the Bible says" as you have stated above DHK!!

Glad to see your enthusiasm Bob, but how much do we agree on? Let's look at the statements you posted.

1. Mark 2:27 is a verse you continually take out of context and only quote half the verse to try and make a point. So we don't agree there.
2. Mark 2:28. This is the only verse where we do agree. Christ is Lord, over all.
3. John 14:15 We disagree here because you are using this verse out of context to bolster your position of obeying the Sabbath. One of His Commandments is not to keep the Sabbath.
4. Isa.66 We disagree here. This verse applies as much as the command given to Adam and Eve not to eat of the fruit of good and evil. It is a statement describing a condition on the earth after the second coming of Christ, and has nothing to do with this day and age now. What more butchering of the Bible do you have in store for us?

By contrast to "The SEVENTH day" called "THE SABBATH" we have "week-day-one" in the NT called "week-day-one".

1. Christ arose on the first day of the week which is Sunday. That is an indisputable historical fact.
2. A local church met one time for a farewell service on week-day one as we see in Acts 20:7

In Christ,
Bob

One service in Acts 20 and many others to follow. The pattern was a well established custom as can be seen in 1Cor.16

1 Corinthians 16:2 on every first day of the week, let each one of you lay by him, treasuring up whatever he may have prospered, that when I may come then collections may not be made;

If you read the first verse, you will see that Paul gave the same instructions to all the churches throughout Galatia. It was on the first day of the week, for on the first day of the week they gathered together.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Sabbath Friday evening to Saterday evening yes. Sunday yes I go to church but not necissarily because its "the Lord's resurrection day" but because of the fellowship and the preaching of God's word.

BTW, I find no where in the bible it says the first day of the week ought to replace the sabbath. Where do they get this?

GE:

Yours is the position and circumstance of many Christians I know of as well as do not know of, and with whom I have complete sympathy -- it is very much the same as my own.

But I and a few others have come to the point where we can no longer worship on Sundays because of the contradicting and negative connotations attached to Sunday. We have come tp the point where to us it would be a way of confessing that we believe worshipping upon it would be as good as confessing the day with all its idolatry and hypocricy as the Lord's Day -- while in fact the practice is an abomination before the Lord of the true Sabbath. For us, see, the Sabbath is the Lord's Day, which He is very jealous of, and won't share the honour of with any other day or practice or faith. God is not in conflict with Himself, does not live a lie unto Himself, and does not expect His disciples to be so either. We are free in Christ in God, and will serve Him in that freedom wherewith He has made us free in Christ --- we shall rest upon the Lord's Day of Sabbath-Rest, and feast Jesus Christ, and eat and drink of Him, and not be judged by any of the whole wide and wise and mighty world of Christ-less authority or rule or power. We shall despise the letter of law the world has issued against us with the contempt it deserves. We believe in Christ Jesus the Risen, Victor on the Sabbath. We are Christians; therefore we accept the Sabbath's observance is still binding and for ever binding upon us . . . for it is "The Sabbath of the LORD your God".