Bothers you doesnt it?:wavey:
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Drinking Alcohol Moderately
- Thread starter PrivateWoman
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Bothers you doesnt it?:wavey:
Steadfast Fred
Active Member
Not at all. But if that is your excuse for drinking, it should bother you.
Why? God allows it. The government allows it. So it IS a free country. What's the problem?
Oh right. Your own rules override God.
Steadfast Fred
Active Member
God allows many things that the flesh desires. There are many people in the graveyard because of God allowing them to drink alcohol. There are many in the graveyard because God allowed them to overdose on drugs. There are many that are getting farther and farther from God every day because God allowed them to continue in sin.Why? God allows it. The government allows it. So it IS a free country. What's the problem?
Oh right. Your own rules override God.
God is not a puppetmaster. Of course He allows people to disobey Him and do all these things.
Oh no - it is beyond God ALLOWING. He has told us we can. He has given us permission. That's quite different than allowing.
But, has the world agreed with that permission? Has alcohol consumption been granted a reprise against all the women beat and killed as a result of alcohol consumption. What about all the drink-driving and related deaths?
We don't need God's approval to consume this wicked beverage.
Sorry, over the years I was called out at two in the morning just too many times. No one will ever convince me that drinking alcohol is ok.
Cheers,
Jim
We don't need God's approval to consume this wicked beverage.
Sorry, over the years I was called out at two in the morning just too many times. No one will ever convince me that drinking alcohol is ok.
Cheers,
Jim
My Pastor quoted several scriptures to explain why we don't drink...
Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in [his] brother's way. Romans 14:13
In other words, don't do something that will cause your brother to stumble...We know that we are sinners saved by grace, but the WORLD
looks at us with a definition of a "Christian" and expects certain behavior from us, and whether we like it or not, the WORLD doesn't understand GRACE, only WORKS.
and this verse too.....
Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean [thing]; and I will receive you, 2 Corinthians 6:17
We are not of the world anymore, we are a peculiar people....and we should be distinctly different.
Just my two cents....
Debbie Mc
Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in [his] brother's way. Romans 14:13
In other words, don't do something that will cause your brother to stumble...We know that we are sinners saved by grace, but the WORLD
looks at us with a definition of a "Christian" and expects certain behavior from us, and whether we like it or not, the WORLD doesn't understand GRACE, only WORKS.
and this verse too.....
Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean [thing]; and I will receive you, 2 Corinthians 6:17
We are not of the world anymore, we are a peculiar people....and we should be distinctly different.
Just my two cents....
Debbie Mc
Steadfast Fred
Active Member
Look not thou upon the wine when it is red; when it giveth his colour in the cup; when it moveth itself aright. (Prov 23:31)
Thus saith the LORD, As the new wine is found in the cluster, and one saith, Destroy it not; for a blessing is in it: so will I do for my servants' sakes, that I may not destroy them all. (Isa 65:8 KJV)
These two verses are clearly speaking of two different wines... the former fermented, the latter not. God approves of only the latter.
I do not excuse irresponsible drinking & I abhor drunks. I however can have an occasional beer, wine or drink without turning into a lunatic. If your position that we should be a dry country, well we've been there & done that & it did not work. And if your going to legislate my responsible behavior because there are fools out there, then you need to open your eyes.....there are a lot of them.:laugh:
It is not wise for me to drink, so I don't.
However, to claim that wine of Biblical times was without alcohol is a terribly weak argument, and is a dubious claim.
But read my first line again. Is it sinful? I don't think so. But is it wise? Not for me. So I don't. Easy enough.
However, to claim that wine of Biblical times was without alcohol is a terribly weak argument, and is a dubious claim.
But read my first line again. Is it sinful? I don't think so. But is it wise? Not for me. So I don't. Easy enough.
This statement sheds little light. Children often drink in excess when their parents strictly forbid it and judged all who consumed alcohol.
We can make as many illustrations and analogies and find as much anecdotal evidence as we want, when the real truth here is that alcoholic consumption is a matter of conscience.
PrivateWoman
Member
Link Does Not Work At All
I wanted to let you know that the link you've provided doesn't work at all. I'd like to see what you mean. What did you want us to see on this web page to further discuss the issue of drinking alcohol?
I wanted to let you know that the link you've provided doesn't work at all. I'd like to see what you mean. What did you want us to see on this web page to further discuss the issue of drinking alcohol?
PrivateWoman
Member
I don't think you should drink alcohol simply because you like the taste of alcohol. What about drug users who simply like the way they feel when they get high on drugs?
Unfortunately, there are some parents who don't drink at all who have children who end up drinking. It is simply because those children have chosen to rebel and want to fit in with their friends. One of my mom's good friends who is very against alcohol taught both of her sons that they should never drink at all. Things changed when her oldest son went away to college. He met a lot of people there and joined a fraternity. He decided to start drinking becuase he didn't want to be different from his friends. It was very important to him that he fit in with them. He also hung out with the wrong crowd. He ended up having sex before marriage. This was not the way he raised.
It is very sad, but some strong Christian parents do end up with children who become wild. You will find that some pastors' kids have become wild. I think the main thing that messes up them is when they want to do things their own way and hang out with the wrong crowd. Look at this verse: Do not be deceived: "Bad company corrupts good morals." (1 Corinthians 15:33) College can be a bad influence on young people.
I am so grateful that my parents never drank alcohol while my sister and I grew up. My dad did drink alcohol earlier in his life and before he became a Christian and got married. I asked him why he used to drink and he said that he just followed what his dad did. I have no idea if my dad ever got drunk, but he believes that drinking alcohol moderately is wrong.
In my research, many young people who drink usually come from homes that were not really strict about drinking alcohol.
Yet what about when God tells man to buy wine and strong drink and to enjoy it in His presence? Hmmm....
Great stand on the subject and quite Biblical. :thumbs:
http://www.baptistpillar.com/bd0044.htm
Sorry about the broken link!! I found it on plenty of sites though. Seems she has a popular stance.
PrivateWoman
Member
That was interesting. I don't agree with her on some things. I do agree that women should not dress like a man. But the truth is I think that many of the pants and shorts you find are feminine. I think it is important that women dress modestly. Leslie Ludy who wrote "When God Writes Your Love Story" with her husband, Eric has strongly encouraged women to dress modestly. But she doesn't hold the belief that pants or shorts are wrong. I've seen her two times in person. She wears pants. You can find some information about Eric and Leslie Ludy's ministry at http://setapartgirl.com/home.html.
I think that many modern swimsuits are immodest.
My mom wears dress pants to church. She has a bad hip problem and it is very hard for her to fit on a dress for that reason.
I feel this is not related to drinking alcohol at all, but I thought I'd share how I feel about this.
I have started a new posting about women dressing modestly at http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?p=1589164#post1589164.
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Steadfast Fred
Active Member
Obviously a non-alcoholic approval since He clearly frowns on alcoholic wine and strong drink in other passages.
Does God contradict Himself? Can He lie?
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PrivateWoman
Member
You have a very good point. I agree with you. I think many people have misconceptions about alcohol. It is so sad about how many young people end up drinking. One of my sister's friends believed in drinking moderately, but he ended up drunk. Many young people who believe in drinking moderately end up becoming drunk.
Here's some information I've researched:
I read how Noah made some wine from vineyard in the bible a while ago. It was alcoholic of course because he got drunk. I believe that it became fermented in heat so it became fermented wine. But I don’t think it became fermented wine immediately because the fermentation process takes a while. I believe Noah drank a lot of fermented wine. Lot certainly got drunk. His daughters had incest sex with him (what a horrible thing). But there are some puzzling things to me. It is my understanding that the alcoholic content today is much higher than the drinks in the bible because wineries and breweries often add more alcoholic content to them. When I was in college, one day the teacher had a class discussing different alcoholic drinks. The students talked about how better drinks were when they had higher alcoholic content. There was no distilled alcohol then. The wine was made from grapes and fermented in heat. We know it was very hot in Egypt and Israel at times of course.
I do believe that there were some alcoholic drinks in the biblical times. But I don’t think that 100% of the wine was fermented because it usually takes a few days for it to become fermented. The grapes must rot and ferment. Both unfermented wine (Grape juice) and fermented wine existed. There is one thing we need to also consider about the biblical times. Water was bad. There was no purification system then. It was actually best to drink unfermented or fermented wine then. There is one positive thing about alcohol is that it kills germs. You know nurses often rub alcohol on your arm before giving you a shot. Dr. John MacArthur, a pastor in California talks about how people often diluted alcohol in the bible with water.
I have done some research on the wedding that Jesus was at and I found a good article at http://www.learnthebible.org/jesus-and-wine.html. I think the wine at this wedding was unfermented and high quality grape juice because He made it immediately and didn’t use fermentation. I also think if it was alcoholic that some people at the wedding would have gotten drunk. Jesus is perfect and sinless. He certainly would not have made alcoholic wine to lead people to become drunk. There are a lot of scriptures especially in Proverbs that talk about the dangers of wine. I decided to experiment tasting two different grape juices recently. One tasted sour and one other tasted very good. I have never tried wine and I am not going to do that. I really believe God is grieved at how many alcohol problems we have in the world today.
I have found some articles on how to make wine at http://www.ehow.com/how_2258656_make-grape-wine.html and http://www.winehaven.com/WineMakingProcess2378.php (winery).
No He cannot so the stance that God commands full abstinence from alcohol is unbiblical. Otherwise, He is contradicting Himself constantly.
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