Duty Faith

In another thread, there are those who would impose upon mankind things which God, in a careful study of His word, does not impose.
I do not accuse them of deliberately twisting God's word, but perhaps it is because of a zeal for God (which, unfortunately, must come under the description Paul gives of that ignorant, but, elect part of national Israel, "not according to knowledge"), and a desire to see souls "come" to Christ, such "coming to Christ" always and only in the eternal sense, rather than the "timely" sense which is a more proper way of applying the term.

Now, without a doubt, this subject makes for interesting discussion, and, might be worth exploring some more.

Pastor Larry asked me this question:

Is it the duty of all men to exercise faith and repentance to be saved and is such faith and repentance necessary for salvation? LINK

My answer was: NO. Such a duty (and I do not really agree to this word) falls on those who profess to have come to a saved (in the eternal sense) relationship with the Christ of God, AND who, having thus professed to have had an experience of grace, comes under the hearing and preaching of the gospel.

 

I am posting herewith, in connection and in continuation of the first post, an excerpt of a letter exchanged between two Old Baptists of the Primitive Faith (I believe).

Now, there are those who out of rancor or such, might point out that Brother Beebe, and the letter writer from whom I took the excerpt, were both Absolute Predestinarians.

That maybe so, but it does not mean and should not be taken to mean, that all Primitive Baptists are absolute predestinarians. I am certainly not.

The excerpt:

 

Yes. Although I would take exception to your statement's suggestion that I am a Calvinist, I am not. But it is a critical issue if the Doctrine of Total Depravity is to be consistent since this doctrine states in essence that natural man is unable on his own to do anything that can be truly pleasing to God and in conformity with God's will unless God Himself should enable such a natural man.

But as is pointed out in the letter, there is a difference between believing Christ and believing IN Christ, or ON Christ. Much as we often tell those to whom we witness to: Oh, you believe there is a God, but the real question is do you believe God ?

As for your Ephesians 4, such unity is a local unity, and not a denominational one, or a universal one. There can only be true unity of One Church in the presence of Christ and that is in eternity future, out of time. Here in time, there will be divisions among those who name themselves with the name of Christ, for Christ Himself said to His angel: Let the wheat and the tares grow together until the time of harvest.

And likewise, whether some freewillers, Arminians, and semi-pelagians are saved. Heck, we don't even know if half of the membership of the church you and I or others here go to will actually be in heaven when the time comes, so you might as well forget about insinuating that some Calvinists have no salvation at all. Point one finger, there are three bent and pointing at you, you know what I mean ?

On the contrary, it will seem obvious to an astute reader of the Bible that if one's theology demands belief, repentance, and prayer for salvation then one's theology is at odds with God's assessment of man, and would rather honor man's assessment of God in his limited and fallen mind. Now you may not probably call that hypocritical, but it most certainly is idolatrous - towards man, that is.

What you lack is an understanding of the difference between eternal salvation (one that was conceived, authored, and finalized by the eternal triune God Himself), and timely, or temporal salvation.

Of course, you will not understand the difference between these two since to you there is only one salvation and that is the eternal aspect.

However, if you will allow me to once more state what I have often stated not only to you, but to others:

Eternal salvation is all OF the Lord, it comes from the Lord, it is a gift of the Lord, it is something that the Lord Himself authored and accomplished for and in behalf of fallen sinners. It is all OF grace, grace being unmerited favor, unmerited meaning there was not one iota of input from fallen man. Belief is input, repentance is input, prayer is input. You dont want to call it works ? Fine. But these are all inputs.

Temporal salvation, on the other hand, requires input. The one already, as you say, convinced by the Spirit, therefore, regenerated, born again, and converted, must make good that conversion by evidencing such rebirth and conversion in his works and in his life, his inputs equal his outputs,and this he can do only with guidance from one who brings the gospel to him.

Paul to the professing churches of his day: let him who stole, steal no more, husbands, love your wives, wives, love your husbands, neglect not the gathering of saints, worship God in your midst, and all that in the Book.

You get the drift.

But to demand godly repentance of an unregenerate sinner in order to get God's favor and thus, eternal salvation ? You might as well ask a wild bear not to be predatory, or a kitten to attack a leopard, or a leopard to get rid of its spots.

I don't know. Ask the Calvinists. I am not a Calvinist.
I am an adherent to the Doctrine of Grace, and Calvinists will also say they are, too, but, as you may surmise, Primitive Baptists and Calvinists seem to have different perspectives on the Doctrine of Grace.

That point is AFTER regeneration, within the hearing of the gospel, as evidence of grace and not as requirement of eternal salvation. In a sense, you are right. If you will remember, I agreed with you on this point in one of your threads.

Well, the elect may in fact think that such acts resulted in his salvation, as a matter of fact. And indeed many Calvinists think that bringing up their children in church could possibly put them in an environment where salvation will be within their reach.I thought it did for me, and I am sure that there are certain of the Calvinists here on this board who started out thinking that repentance, faith, and belief were the predicates of their salvation.

As they grew in grace and in the knowledge of their Savior though through study of the Scriptures, those who adhere to the Doctrine of Grace later understand that such acts were antimonic to the Creator's will for them, and actions in their behalf.

Don't get me wrong, I have no objections at all to bringing children to church and exposing them to the word, since God Himself says so, but I believe that the eternal fruits of such an upbringing depends finally on God's knowledge of and relationship with that individual child.

However, the temporal blessing and protection God provides to His elect child passes on to his family as well, just as the chastisement God does to a disobedient child (by way of the natural consequences of disobedience and unholy living) passes on to the family, as well.

Would it be too hard for you to try and grasp the principles and differences between eternal and temporal salvation and the requirements for each ?

 

Skypair:

You and Pastor Larry go right ahead and believe what you want to believe.

You both got my blessings.

Somebody wiser than you and I once sat me on his knee (figuratively) and told me:

"son, y'all kin tell a har'head what ya'll wan' him to hear, and he ain' gon' change his har'hea'd min', cuz' to you ya'll are right, and he's wrong, and to him, he'all is right, and ya'll are wrong. He's a har'head to ya, and ya'll are the har'head to him'all.

Ya'll kin holler an' rant an' bite yer pink tongue off and him bite his blue tongue off an' it won' make no diff'rence to ya'll and to him'all. He's gon' b'lieve what he wan' b'lieve, an' yall 're gon' b'lieve what ya'll wan' b'lieve and fer all ya'll know, ya'll both gon' git a spankin' from the good Lord when ya'll git to heav'n, 'sumin' of course, ya both are headed fer heav'n.

So, ya'll g'wan an' b'lieve what ya'll b'lieve an' let him b'lieve what he wanssa b'lieve, and it don' make no diff'rence cause heav'n is all about the blood of Christ, and it ain' 'bout some smar' alecky dingdong called the-ah-logy."

And there I rest.:wavey:

Hope you had a good Sunday service.:godisgood:

 

Yes, sir, skypair. That southerner was smarter than I can ever hope to be, I don't mind saying.

What all can we say against the wisdom of "heav'n is all about the blood of Christ, and it ain' 'bout some smar' alecky dingdong called the-ah-logy." ?

He was smarter than me, and he ain't ever gotten past third grade, 'cordin to him.

I loved that guy, and he doesn't always speak that way, only when he's about to wax philosophical, and I did a poooorr rendition of his southern drawl, which, by the way, is one of the most beautiful accents in the English tongue I hear.

He's gone home to be with the Lord now.