Since the Word of God says our sins are removed by God as far as the east is from the west, and that He has buried them in the depths of the sea. Then my question is how come so many people try to find an east pole or a west pole and go fishing in places God has posted no fishing signs?:thumbsup: :laugh: :wavey: :jesus:
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East from the West and no fishing
- Thread starter Dr. Timo
- Start date
DeafPosttrib
New Member
Dr. Timo,
This is speaking of forgived all our PAST sins only. God do not remember our past sins, when after we confess our sins to God. He immediately forgived our sins of past, and he do not remember all our past sins anymore.
But, 1 John 1:9 commands us that we ought confess our sins to Christ/God all the times long as He is faithful and just to forgive and cleanse all our sins. If, we doing sinning right now, and not yet confess our currently sins right now for long time, therefore, Christ is NOT going to forgive us current and future sins!
In Ezekiel chapter 18 explaing clear that when a righteous (saint) turn away from righteous life, and into sin life, will bring forth to death, which speak of spiritually death in hell. Unless if righteous repents from the wicked ways, return back to Lord again, He will forgive person immediately, and shall save person's life.
Same with James 1:15-16. It warn us, if we sinning, it shall bring us forth to death, which speaking of spiritually death shall lead us to everlasting fire.
Yes, God do forgive our sins by through Jesus Christ on the cross by through the blood. His forgiven or atonement is no limited. He have the power to forgive all our sins at once.
But, it doesn't mean that He once forgived ALL our past, present and future sins. Many securists like baptists believed all our sins of past, present, and future are forgiven at once, so, therefore we are saved at once.
But, our future sins that we are not yet commit, 1 John 1:9 commands us that we ought to confess our sins when after we did commit today and future too. If we continue commit sinning today, and future for a long period. Christ is NOT going to forgive our currently sins!
Hell is for sinners, rebelllion, and unrepent people.
But, we know that hell was created for Satan and fallen angels. But, people are in hell, because of not believe in Christ, also disobedient God, also, not repent of sins.
We are responsiblity to confess our currently sins from last week, month, or for long period while we did not make confession for long time, we MUST confess our sins to Christ, therefore, He is faifthful and just to forgive and cleanse all our sins all the time. Unless, if we don't confess our sins to Him, He will NOT fogive our currently sins. What will happen to us when we did not confess our sins? What will happen to our currently sins? Our currently sins without confession will bring us to death(James 1:15), which is in hell.
That mean, if suppose, a Christian who is continue practically sins daily right now, never confess sins to Christ for long time, even through many years without confession, Christian's sins will lead to death(Spiritually-James 1:15), when a Christian dies(physical) without confession to Christ for long time. Christian is in hell already, that's period. No argument according James 1:15-16.
Salvation is conditional.
In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!
This is speaking of forgived all our PAST sins only. God do not remember our past sins, when after we confess our sins to God. He immediately forgived our sins of past, and he do not remember all our past sins anymore.
But, 1 John 1:9 commands us that we ought confess our sins to Christ/God all the times long as He is faithful and just to forgive and cleanse all our sins. If, we doing sinning right now, and not yet confess our currently sins right now for long time, therefore, Christ is NOT going to forgive us current and future sins!
In Ezekiel chapter 18 explaing clear that when a righteous (saint) turn away from righteous life, and into sin life, will bring forth to death, which speak of spiritually death in hell. Unless if righteous repents from the wicked ways, return back to Lord again, He will forgive person immediately, and shall save person's life.
Same with James 1:15-16. It warn us, if we sinning, it shall bring us forth to death, which speaking of spiritually death shall lead us to everlasting fire.
Yes, God do forgive our sins by through Jesus Christ on the cross by through the blood. His forgiven or atonement is no limited. He have the power to forgive all our sins at once.
But, it doesn't mean that He once forgived ALL our past, present and future sins. Many securists like baptists believed all our sins of past, present, and future are forgiven at once, so, therefore we are saved at once.
But, our future sins that we are not yet commit, 1 John 1:9 commands us that we ought to confess our sins when after we did commit today and future too. If we continue commit sinning today, and future for a long period. Christ is NOT going to forgive our currently sins!
Hell is for sinners, rebelllion, and unrepent people.
But, we know that hell was created for Satan and fallen angels. But, people are in hell, because of not believe in Christ, also disobedient God, also, not repent of sins.
We are responsiblity to confess our currently sins from last week, month, or for long period while we did not make confession for long time, we MUST confess our sins to Christ, therefore, He is faifthful and just to forgive and cleanse all our sins all the time. Unless, if we don't confess our sins to Him, He will NOT fogive our currently sins. What will happen to us when we did not confess our sins? What will happen to our currently sins? Our currently sins without confession will bring us to death(James 1:15), which is in hell.
That mean, if suppose, a Christian who is continue practically sins daily right now, never confess sins to Christ for long time, even through many years without confession, Christian's sins will lead to death(Spiritually-James 1:15), when a Christian dies(physical) without confession to Christ for long time. Christian is in hell already, that's period. No argument according James 1:15-16.
Salvation is conditional.
In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!
Uh- exactly how long is this "long time" without confession supposed to be, that will cause one to suffer death in hell? One minute? One hour? One day? One week? One 'fortnight?' One month? One 'quarter?' (I am a Baptist, you know!DeafPosttrib said:
) One year? One decade? 32 years, 4 months, 5 days, 9 hours, 27 minutes, and 38 seconds? Where is this time frame stated in Scripture??BTW, I fully believe it to be a false doctrine that any real Christian would ever be in hell, for the word Christian, by definition means Christ in one, and I do not believe the Lord Jesus Christ is going to hell - period!
A false professor, such as Judas was, yes, definitely. And those to whom the Lord will say, "Depart from me, I never knew you!" were definitely disciples, as well as professors - just read the context and verses.
But I'm gonna' stand clothed only in Jesus' righteousness (Phil. 3:9), as I don't consider "filthy rags" as fitting attire for the King of kings and Lord of lords' presence. (Isa. 64:6; Rev. 19:16)
And I don't wanna' be with most of the religious crowd. I get kinda' nervous around them - 'cause I don't wanna' hear "Depart from me!" or be called "a whitewashed tombstone" (Lk. 13:27; Mt. 23:27)
Not me!
Count me in with a few of the great Biblical saints and heroes, however. You know the ones I mean - those I feel more in company with, consisting of such, for example, as the dozen of Noah, Jacob, Jonah, Rahab, Moses, Samson, David, Solomon, Thomas, Peter, Paul, and Lot.
The way I see it from the Bible, that puts me right with few I can identify with - a drunk, the greatest swindler, the most obnoxious bigot, a prostitute, a murderer, a notorious womanizer, an adulterer and murderer to boot, the greatest polygamist, the biggest doubter, a Christ-denier, the chief of sinners and 'Hizzoner' - the Mayor of Sodom!
Hey!! Nice crowd, hunh??
Ed
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how many times
Hey DEAFPOSTRIB: If your salvation is conditional then how many times have you been saved!!! You sin everyday by thought word and deed. You also sin by omission as well as comission. Are you sure you haven't missed any specific sins in your I John 1:9 confession? That verse is saying if we want to be cleansed then confession is needed. We are never reforgiven or need forgiven for anymore future sins. You bring God down to your level!!! If you'll take a little look at what His Holy Word says about what you have in Christ you will find that He already has you in heaven if you've ever been truly forgiven. You're a saint or an aint, and if you're an aint you can become a saint. Sheep don't become goats anymore. Butterflies don't become a little worm in a cacoon again. You have eternal life or you don't. This is not rocket science. You just complicate things never meant to be complicated!!!:laugh: :thumbsup: :godisgood:
Hey DEAFPOSTRIB: If your salvation is conditional then how many times have you been saved!!! You sin everyday by thought word and deed. You also sin by omission as well as comission. Are you sure you haven't missed any specific sins in your I John 1:9 confession? That verse is saying if we want to be cleansed then confession is needed. We are never reforgiven or need forgiven for anymore future sins. You bring God down to your level!!! If you'll take a little look at what His Holy Word says about what you have in Christ you will find that He already has you in heaven if you've ever been truly forgiven. You're a saint or an aint, and if you're an aint you can become a saint. Sheep don't become goats anymore. Butterflies don't become a little worm in a cacoon again. You have eternal life or you don't. This is not rocket science. You just complicate things never meant to be complicated!!!:laugh: :thumbsup: :godisgood:
And some don't really want to forgive others, very much either, it seems at times. :tear:Dr. Timo said:
However, unfortunately that may be consistent for some who pray to be forgiven their sins, just as they forgive those who sin against them. Personally, I would hope to forgive others as Christ has forgiven me, rather than reverse that.
BTW, comparing the Lord's Model prayer, with its 'conditional forgiveness' request, and other references to a 'conditional forgiveness' in the OT and the gospels, with some other verses, such as Col. 2:13, is an excellent argument for a difference between Israel, before the cross, and the church after the cross.
Compare those with -
Note the changes in the sense from the future potential, in the first set of verses, to that which has already been accomplished, in the second set.
Ed
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>Since you brought it up, will there be any rats there??
A weed is a flower that is growing in the wrong place. Maybe this also applies to (non-human) rats. As someone said about cockroaches - it isn't what they steal and carry off that bothers us but what they fall into and mess up.
A weed is a flower that is growing in the wrong place. Maybe this also applies to (non-human) rats. As someone said about cockroaches - it isn't what they steal and carry off that bothers us but what they fall into and mess up.
Thinkingstuff
Active Member
Dr. Timo said:
Well, because the earth is round and you go far enough east you'll end up in the west.
Heavenly Pilgrim
New Member
HP: Very simple. God has only promised to forgive sins that are past AND those repented of. Those are the only sins lying deep below that 'no fishing sign.':thumbs:
Ro 3:25 “Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;”
God has promised to forgive all the sins in someones life, past, present, and future when they come to God in genuine repentence and saving faith in His Son Jesus Christ. Either Jesus paid it all or you are trying to pay. You are compromising the message of God's eternal grace and preaching another gospel when you believe in conditional salvation. It is a slam against God and His Son's cross. You are trampling the blood of His Son and saying it wasn't enough to secure my salvation. Those who believe in this consistent loss of salvation must be tremendous witnesses for the Lord Jesus Christ. What do you tell people? You are saved until? Or unless? You must be winning a lot of people to Jesus. Evidently you believe you could lead the same person to the Lord multiple times. :BangHead: Your Church records must be fun to keep:BangHead: :godisgood: Uhh I led this person to the Lord 20 times now. Still not sure if he's saved or not.:BangHead:
God has promised to forgive all the sins in someones life, past, present, and future when they come to God in genuine repentence and saving faith in His Son Jesus Christ. Either Jesus paid it all or you are trying to pay. You are compromising the message of God's eternal grace and preaching another gospel when you believe in conditional salvation. It is a slam against God and His Son's cross. You are trampling the blood of His Son and saying it wasn't enough to secure my salvation. Those who believe in this consistent loss of salvation must be tremendous witnesses for the Lord Jesus Christ. What do you tell people? You are saved until? Or unless? You must be winning a lot of people to Jesus. Evidently you believe you could lead the same person to the Lord multiple times. :BangHead: Your Church records must be fun to keep:BangHead: :godisgood: Uhh I led this person to the Lord 20 times now. Still not sure if he's saved or not.:BangHead:
When you get done taking a verse out of context about past sins make sure you keep reading. The verses around Romans 3:25 say we are JUSTIFIED freely by His Grace. Then when you get to Romans 5:1, and Romans 8:1. Ask yourself where is my peace, and what do I believe about God's condemnation about any future sins I may commit!!!:laugh: :godisgood: :jesus:
Heavenly Pilgrim
New Member
HP: Is that so. Where is your support for that assumption?
HP: You have grace and license to sin confused.
HP: Not true in the least. You simply have a false idea of what was accomplished on the cross, or you believe in the predestination of the damned… or both. His blood makes ones salvation possible, and it takes man’s response in repentance and faith to secure it as real in our lives. God built the bridge and calls upon man to fulfill the conditions of salvation which are repentance and faith, without which the blood of Christ will never wash away your sins. Christ’s work on the cross was finished for the sins of the entire world, but it is not finished on behalf of any individual sins until we repent and believe. Even then, only sins that are past are those remitted. Ro 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
HP: Salvation is not something that can be said to be ‘lost’ until one enters the judgment and is found not to have Christ as their Advocate. Until then, one still has the opportunity to repent and to turn from their sins, receiving the forgiveness promised by God under the conditions He has set forth.
HP: Think what you will, and say what ever you so desire, but I believe Scripture to be true.
“Jas 5:20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.” That goes for sinners that are first coming to the Lord as well as those that once repented but have since backslid into sin in which they have yet to repent from.
HP: I do not keep church records. I will leave the results to the Lord thank you.
HP: I am not God and it is not necessary that I know the final state of others. I have news for you, you do not know either.
Duty is mine the results the Lord’s. In this life we may never know who is and who is not saved, or how many times they have backslid and repented, or even how God views all those happenings. What is that to me? My call from God is “Come thou and follow Me.”
Aside from the little minor, trivial detail that nowhere does the Bible, in any major standard version I have ever seen, ever use any phrase that says anything like "repent/repentance of/from sin(s)" although it certainly speaks of "repent" and/or "repentance" many multiple times, if repentance actually means "repent of sins" [and for this I don't really care if you are eisegetically injecting the interpretation of "be sorry for one's sin(s)" or "turn from one's sin(s)" here], exactly what sins are you suggesting God repented or did not repent of??Heavenly Pilgrim said:
Only two, count 'em, '1' - '2' , human individuals are ever actually said, anywhere, to 'repent" or to have "repented" in Scripture, that I can find, namely Job (Job. 42:6), and Judas (Mt. 27:3) in any major version I have checked.
Job already was a saved and righteous individual [Scripture had already three times pronounced Job as blameless (NKJV, NIV, NASB, ESV) or perfect (KJV, ASV, DARBY, YLT), upright, God-fearing, and avoiding evil, including God twice saying this by direct statement. (Job. 1:1, 8; 2:3) Ergo, Job did not have any "need" to repent (in the sense you want to imply), but did anyway!
Judas never was saved (I am no 'ME' adherent.), and was not saved even after he "repented himself", from what I can read in Scripture, for he is called "the son of perdition", and was said to be lost, by none other than the Lord Jesus Christ, and this is seemingly confirmed by Luke. (Jn. 17:12; Ac. 1:16-25) IOW, even after his "repenting" Judas was still a lost individual.
So repentance wasn't needed by Job, and repentance did not help Judas, at all!
Now God is the only other 'person' expressly said to either "repent" or not "repent" in Scripture. This He is said to do some 30 different times. So one again I ask (and incidentally, I believe I have actually specifically asked this question at least twice previously on threads on which you were active), "Exactly what sins are you suggesting that God needed to repent of???"
I consider this as certainly a fair question, considering the continued insistance that I keep seeing on the BB, that 'repentance' really, actually means "repentance of/from sins", don't you??
Although I have to admit, I don't really expect any response to this now, any more than the other multiple times I have asked it, and been ignored, however.
Ed
Heavenly Pilgrim
New Member
HP: No. God does not sin nor does he repent in the sense of repentance as in repentance of sins.
The problem you seem to imbibe is often repeated on this list. Words have different meanings and are used in different senses.
I am NOT trying to be unkind, but what I am amazed is how you, most likely an adult, could more than likely get a lesson on repentance from sin or wrongdoing from even a child with a little solid moral training. We have seemingly lost much of our moral compass.
Since Romans was written around 50-60 A.D. and the sense of this propitiation is that of 'completed' in Scripture, would that not mean that none of our sins are remitted, considering all your and my sins were nearly 1900 years in the future, when this was stated? (BTW, Rom. 3:25 is only part of a sentence, I believe, with the whole thought being -)Heavenly Pilgrim said:
Ed
HP: Is that so. Where is your support for that assumption?
Romans 10:9,10,13; Hebrews 6:4-6; John 10:9
[[/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR]HP: You have grace and license to sin confused.
You have grace and works confused. You try and mix oil and water: won't work.
]
HP: Not true in the least. You simply have a false idea of what was accomplished on the cross, or you believe in the predestination of the damned… or both.
You're the one with the false idea of what happened on the cross. The Lord Jesus said it is finished and you want to believe that we have a part in staying forgiven.
HP: Salvation is not something that can be said to be ‘lost’ until one enters the judgment and is found not to have Christ as their Advocate. Until then, one still has the opportunity to repent and to turn from their sins, receiving the forgiveness promised by God under the conditions He has set forth.]
Call it what you will but you are still saying the same thing!!! You must get forgiven over and over which is not true!!! Otherwise He would not promise you ETERNAL life when you accept His gift. If you don't know you're saved until the judgement then you have no assurance of ETERNAL life until then. WRONG!!!
HP: Think what you will, and say what ever you so desire, but I believe Scripture to be true.
“Jas 5:20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.” That goes for sinners that are first coming to the Lord as well as those that once repented but have since backslid into sin in which they have yet to repent from.[/]
You added that last part God didn't.
HP: I am not God and it is not necessary that I know the final state of others. I have news for you, you do not know either.
You're playing God when you twist His Word to say someone has to endure in his own strength. Or continue to pray and beg God for repentance when He has forgiven you freely of ALL your sins. Past, Present, and future. By the way that's not a license to sin it is liberty to love which evidently you don't have!!!
Duty is mine the results the Lord’s. In this life we may never know who is and who is not saved, or how many times they have backslid and repented, or even how God views all those happenings. What is that to me? My call from God is “Come thou and follow Me.” [/QUOTE]
You can't follow God the way He intended. You are to busy to confessing and repenting of all those sins you aren't sure are forgiven. No wonder you call it a duty. It's a priveledge. It only becomes a duty when you aren't sure. Work is a duty. Following the Lord Jesus Christ is pure joy unspeakable and full of glory!!!:godisgood: :jesus:
Romans 10:9,10,13; Hebrews 6:4-6; John 10:9
[[/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR]HP: You have grace and license to sin confused.
You have grace and works confused. You try and mix oil and water: won't work.
]
HP: Not true in the least. You simply have a false idea of what was accomplished on the cross, or you believe in the predestination of the damned… or both.
You're the one with the false idea of what happened on the cross. The Lord Jesus said it is finished and you want to believe that we have a part in staying forgiven.
HP: Salvation is not something that can be said to be ‘lost’ until one enters the judgment and is found not to have Christ as their Advocate. Until then, one still has the opportunity to repent and to turn from their sins, receiving the forgiveness promised by God under the conditions He has set forth.]
Call it what you will but you are still saying the same thing!!! You must get forgiven over and over which is not true!!! Otherwise He would not promise you ETERNAL life when you accept His gift. If you don't know you're saved until the judgement then you have no assurance of ETERNAL life until then. WRONG!!!
HP: Think what you will, and say what ever you so desire, but I believe Scripture to be true.
“Jas 5:20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.” That goes for sinners that are first coming to the Lord as well as those that once repented but have since backslid into sin in which they have yet to repent from.[/]
You added that last part God didn't.
HP: I am not God and it is not necessary that I know the final state of others. I have news for you, you do not know either.
You're playing God when you twist His Word to say someone has to endure in his own strength. Or continue to pray and beg God for repentance when He has forgiven you freely of ALL your sins. Past, Present, and future. By the way that's not a license to sin it is liberty to love which evidently you don't have!!!
Duty is mine the results the Lord’s. In this life we may never know who is and who is not saved, or how many times they have backslid and repented, or even how God views all those happenings. What is that to me? My call from God is “Come thou and follow Me.” [/QUOTE]
You can't follow God the way He intended. You are to busy to confessing and repenting of all those sins you aren't sure are forgiven. No wonder you call it a duty. It's a priveledge. It only becomes a duty when you aren't sure. Work is a duty. Following the Lord Jesus Christ is pure joy unspeakable and full of glory!!!:godisgood: :jesus: