Eschatology...what's your view?

[BobRyan]

In Rev 19 Christ comes ONCE! But it is then that the beast and the false prophet are tossed into fire and brimstone.

in Rev 20 the 1000 years starts at the coming of Christ - ONCE!!

In Rev 20 at the end the Great White throne judgment happens ONCE at the end of the 1000 years.

In Rev 20 the Lake of fire -- happens ONCE!!

2 Peter 3 does not say "the day Christ comes the earth will be destroyed by fire"

2 Pet 3:
10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar and the elements will be destroyed with intense heat, and the earth and its works will be burned up.

This is global and catastrophic. The “Day of the Lord” is the same subject – same chapter – same idea as the “promise of His coming” in vs 4.

In John 8 Christ said

1John 8: 56"Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad."

The “Day of the Lord” and the “day of the Messiah” seen by Abraham are examples of seeing a future time not a future 24 hour period – not an exact 24 hour period as we see from the context. No attempt is made in the text to limit all future events regarding the destruction of the earth to “one single 24 hr period”. Which means that the destruction of the wicked and the beast and the false prophet in Rev 19, AND the destruction of the wicked and the earth in the lake of fire 1000 years later – are all the combined content of what Peter calls “The Day of the Lord”

 

[DeafPosttrib]

BobRyan,

I disagree.

2 Peter 3:4-7 give us the lesson of flood. The flood did came and destroyed the world. After the flood, God shows rainbow to Noah. He promised him, it will not be happen again. So, at Lord's coming, it shall be fire. This old planet earth shall be burned by fire. SO, we are eager looking forward for new heavens and a new earth.

So, my question, do the scriptures actual saying this planet earth shall be burned TWICE in the future?? Second, do the scriptures actual saying this planet earth shall be re-create into new - TWICE in the future???

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

 

[BobRyan]

As my post already stated - I don't claim the earth is destroyed twice as in "elements melt and all destroyed" -- that happens "only ONCE".

Immediately following that ONE lake of fire - ONE "elements melt with fervent heat" event there is the ONE "New earth" created.

In the OT all the texts referencing desolate planet WITH ruined cities WITH corpses from one end to another WITH Birds eating dead bodies -- is not a case of "all elements melted" it is the result of the Rev 19 events completed at the 2nd coming and it is a description of the literal 1000 years just before the lake of fire -- second death event where ALL the EARTH is enveloped in a literal lake of fire and the elements DO (ONE time and one time ONLY) melt.

BTW - you say you were once "post-trib" and "pre-mill" -- so you did believe in a REAL millennium - but you did not hold to my view on the millennium with the earth laid in ruins for the 1000 years as the Bible says-- but not yet destroyed and certainly not made new until the Rev 21 events following the millennium.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[Ed Edwards]

BobRyan: // ... you did not hold to my view on the millennium with
the earth laid in ruins for the 1000 years as the Bible says ... ///

The Bible does not say that.
Someday it would be interesting if you would used the
actual words (not just the addresses) of how you combine
scriptures to come to your conclusion. Thank you in advance
for your time.

Matthew 25:31-46 makes more sense if we consider that
the nations are seperated as sheep & goats.
The Sheep inhabit the physcial (occupied by people)
Millinnial Messanic Kingdom. The Goat nations go to hell
for containment until the 1,000 years is over and the people there
will be judged at the Great White Throne judgement.


That judgement is different from other judgements.

------------------------

Five Judgements

The Lord God is a judging God

"To judge" can mean three things in the Holy Bible:

A. to discern between good and evil (human function)
B. to condemn, usually falsely (human function)
C. to reward the just & punish the evil (Godly function)

The Five Judgements:

1. Believers for SIN on the Cross
WHO: All who will Believe
WHEN: 33AD
WHERE: Jerusalem
WHY: The Lord God is a merciful God.
HOW: The Grace of God through Messiah Jesus
WHAT: found innocent by the Bood of Jesus

How to get from judgement 1 to judgement 2
(and avoid judgements 3, 4, or 5):

Romans 10:9 (KJV): "That if thou
shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt
believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from
the dead, thou shalt be saved."

2. Judgement Seat of Christ
WHO: Believers for works
WHEN: during the Great Tribulation on earth;
Right after the Rapture/Resurrection that starts
the Tribulation
WHERE: Heaven
WHY: to assign rewards (including
the Millinnial Kingdom rest)
to the redeemed for their good works
HOW: The Grace of God through Messiah Jesus
WHAT: found innocent by the Bood of Jesus

3. Judgement of Yisrael under Antichrist
(Ezekiel 22:17-22 Time of Jacob's Trouble; Ezekiel 20:34-38;
Jeremiah 30:1-24; Revelation 6-19)
WHO: Yisrael
WHEN: during the Tribulation
WHERE: earth
WHY: The Lord God fulfills His promises
HOW: The wrath of God by Messiah Jesus
WHAT: Great Tribulation

4. Throne of His Glory judgement
(AKA: Sheep and Goat Nations judgement, Matthew 25:31-46,
2 Cor 5:10, 1 Cor 3:11-15)
WHO: the nations: the living surviver nations of the Great Tribulation
(these people are NOT saved, they are human in human bodies)
WHEN: after the Great Tribulation, before the Millennial Age
WHERE: Jerusalem
WHY: The Lord God fulfills His promises: God will bless those
who bless Yisrael and curse those who curse Yisrael
HOW: Judged by their treatment of Yisrael
WHAT: the cursed nations to Hell; the blessed nations
to the Millennial Messanic KingdomAge

5. Great White Throne judgement
(Revelation 20:11:15)
WHO: the wicked dead
WHEN: after the Millennial Age; before endless ages
WHERE: between Hell and the Lake of Fire
WHY: The Lord God is not mocked
HOW: The wrath of God by Messiah Jesus
WHAT: the Messiah rejectors consigned to endless punishment

NOTE: The delineation of the five revealed
judgements above does not preclude other specific
or general judgements. One place on the net i found
a chart where TWENTY-FOUR judgements were delineated.
The Lord God is a judging God and His hand is not shortened
by His revelation to us nor
by our understaning of His revelation to us.

May Jesus our Savior and our Lord be Praised!

--compilation by ed,
incurable Jesus Phreaque
---------------------------------------------

 

[EdSutton]

My personal view is found in Rev. 22!

12 “And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last.”[f]
14 Blessed are those who do His commandments,[g] that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. 15 But[h] outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.
16 “I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things in the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, the Bright and Morning Star.”
17 And the Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” And let him who hears say, “Come!” And let him who thirsts come. Whoever desires, let him take the water of life freely.

A Warning


18 For[i] I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add[j] to him the plagues that are written in this book; 19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away[k] his part from the Book[l] of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

I Am Coming Quickly


20 He who testifies to these things says, “Surely I am coming quickly.”
Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus!
21 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all.[m] Amen. (Rev. 22:12-21- NKJV)

Come, Lord Jesus! Amen!

Ed

 

[DeafPosttrib]

Do Isaiah chapter 65 and 66 describe of millennial kingdom? No doubt, Apostle Peter quoted Isaiah chapter 65 and 66 describe of new heavens and a new earth. Notice, Isaiah chapter 65 and 66 say nothing about millennial kingdom, because word, 'a thousand years' is not find anywhere in these passages.

How about 2 Peter 3:8? Does 'a thousand years' of verse 8 take literally?

The context of 2 Peter 3:4-13 do not suggest talk about millennial kingdom. It is talk about Christ's coming shall be like AS thief, show that his coming shall not be delay, it shall be speedily. That why Rev. 22:20 is my favorite verse.

2 Peter 3:8 gives us the picture show the comparing between God's time and our time are different in our thoughts & His thought. In our thoughts, 1,000 years seem toooooo long time for us. But, in the Lord's sight, 1000 years is tooooo short time for Him like as one day in his sight.

Throughout 65 books of the Bible saying nothing about a thousand years beyond Christ's coming or the end of the age.

Premills often always emphasis on Revelation chapter 20 speaks of 'a thousand years'. They interpreting it into literal exactly length time. Before, I used to believe 'a thousand years' of Revelation chapter 20 is a literal exactly length time. Later, I realize,it is a figurative meaning. Remember, the book of Revelation is filled of symbols with spiritual meanings. That why we have to be careful when we read and intepreting. Many of us easily misunderstand or misintepreting what these scriptures of Revelation actual talking about.

Later this week, I will discuss more about 'a thousand years' with scriptures.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

 

[JFox1]

Amillennialism and preterist.:thumbsup:

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

BobRyan,

I disagree.

2 Peter 3:4-7 give us the lesson of flood. The flood did came and destroyed the world. After the flood, God shows rainbow to Noah. He promised him, it will not be happen again. So, at Lord's coming, it shall be fire. This old planet earth shall be burned by fire. SO, we are eager looking forward for new heavens and a new earth.

So, my question, do the scriptures actual saying this planet earth shall be burned TWICE in the future?? Second, do the scriptures actual saying this planet earth shall be re-create into new - TWICE in the future???

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

GE:
You're right.
The SDAs (BobRyan) say Christ will come once. But they also say He comes one again 'after the thousand years'. But they'll never SAY, Christ comes twice!

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

I once counted (I don't remember how anymore) six or seven 'judgements' according to the SDAs. Nevertheless, they believe in more than one judgment, and that to me is a reflection on the justice and power of God.
They say at the second coming of Jesus the world will be destroyed so that no one will survive. That is a judgment, I would say.
Then they say for one thousand literal years (seen from the viewpoint of a destroyed earth, that sound's improbable), every case will be reviewed in judgement - Judgment 2.
But . . . an indeterminate period before (we wouldn't know of how long because no one knows when Christ will come again), everybody's case was judged during an "Investigative Judgement". That is judgement 3 - in terms of time though, number one.
Then after the thousand years, they say - when Christ will come the second time - it will be hell - judgement number 4.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Now none of this nonsense is 'eschatology'.

Eschatology is this:Is7:14, TO, verse 25. And this: Is52 to 53.
Christ the Fulness of fulfilment fulfilling all in all, Christ Jesus, is eschatology' and eschatology, is Jesus Christ.

Escahtology is not futuristic enthusiasm. Eschatology is not the Second Coming or the last day events or the judgment.

Escahtology is Christian Faith, and Christian Faith is Escahtology.

As said Barth, Christianity that isn't eschatology wholly and only(*), wholly and only has nothing to do with Jesus Christ. (*"ganz und gar und restlos")

To me this 'eschatology' accumalated and culminated in this: "Christian Faith that is not Resurrection Faith is neither Christian, nor Faith", Juergen Moltmann.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

"He (Christ) is the Eschatos", said some great theologian - I cannot remember who it was. Maybe Barth.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Spurgeon said somethink much like it. Said he, I have not time for prophecy; I must preach the Gospel.

Calvinism also say something exactly the same: The future belongs to God; He chose me for Christ's sake; my life - and all the future - is hid in Christ in God. So I'l go plough my land now.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Ed E:
"that that day should ouertake you as a thief".

GE:
You place the emphasis wrong; it should be: "that that day should overtake you as a thief". That day should be for believers what it will be for the scoffers.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Sorry, That day should NOT, be for believers what it will be for the scoffers

 

[Predestined]

I'm a "Pan-Mill." :smilewinkgrin:

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

What's that?

 

[Ed Edwards]

Pan-mill = God is in charge of the Millinnium and everything
will 'pan out' just lright.

 

[Claudia_T]

Christ will come the second time?

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Pan-mill = God is in charge of the Millinnium and everything
will 'pan out' just lright.

Ja! right now!

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Christ will come the second time?

What do you mean, Claudia?

Christ had come in the flesh (first comming)
Christ had come from the dead (second coming)
Christ will come again - 'second coming' so called - but alright naturally! Could as well be called Christ's last coming. It's only people who say when Christ would have come the last time, it won't be for the last time, because He will come after the thousand years for the second time ... and all of a sudden they have swallowed their tongues.