ESV Receptivity

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TomVols:
How well received do y'all believe the ESV will be? It is an unabashedly conservative translation endorsed by a "who's who" list of conservative, solid thelogians and pastors. Still, will it find enough usage to be a major contender? I'd like to hear your thoughts.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Tom:

I believe that the ESV will become the new English standard. There has been a lot of dissatisfaction with the NIV in recent years; the NASB is viewed as accurate but as bland as the phone book, and the NKJV is literate but based on an underlying text most scholars view as weak. The ESV is literate, accurate and based on the scholarly texts.

Most version choices up to now have been chosen as the one with the least weaknesses.
While no version si perfect, I think the ESV will finally become the recognized replacement of the KJV. Most evaluations concur with this recommendation:

"The ESV is the text I have been waiting for my entire life. I appreciate greatly both its fluency of language and its lucidity of expression, thanks to the brilliant work of the translation team. We owe them a very great debt."
Rev. Ranald Macaulay
L'Abri Fellowship

See
Other recommendations

 

They just keep getting better and better. Maybe someday they will discover that God was right all along. Just read the KJV 1611 and you will find the truth that will set you free.

P.S. Don't you know that recommendations by some well known personality is a good money maker? TV advertising at its best.

[ September 07, 2001: Message edited by: Pioneer ]

 

I will answer this the same way I answered it the last time it was asked.

The ESV is based on the Alexandrian text-form and those who prefer the Byzantine text-form (and that group is rapidly growing) will not accept it.

It is also based on the RSV, which has a very bad reputation and may thusly be hurt by its association with a failed translation. Rememver the ASV 1901 failed due to similar reasons.

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Pioneer:
They just keep getting better and better. Maybe someday they will discover that God was right all along. Just read the KJV 1611 and you will find the truth that will set you free.

P.S. Don't you know that recommendations by some well known personality is a good money maker? TV advertising at its best.

[ September 07, 2001: Message edited by: Pioneer ]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Please ... there is enough KJVO palaber on other threads to fill up several volumes.

Please leave this thread alone for sane discussions of an important and accurate new English version.

 

It seems to me that the thing that keeps the KJV Only controversy alive will also keep the ESV from gaining widespread acceptance. What is mean is that people love the KJV because it is what they were saved on and it has such a strong tradition. I would guess that the vast majority of people saved in the last 20 years or so are now using the NIV (for better or worse) and thus will find it very difficult to change for them. I dont' think there will be an NIV Only controversy because people who use the NIV generally seem to understand the fallacy of the KJV Only arguments. But they will hold to the NIV for sentimental reasons, just as many people hold to the KJV.

I read some of it, not much though. I was not all that enamored with it personally. It seems a good translation but not substantially better than the NASB95 or the NIV, IMHO.

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Pastor Larry:
What is mean is that people love the KJV because it is what they were saved on and it has such a strong tradition... But they will hold to the NIV for sentimental reasons, just as many people hold to the KJV. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree. One of the reasons I love the NKJV is it was the first translation I read as a new believer. And there is nothing worng with a person having a reasonable attachment to a particular version.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> I read some of it, not much though. I was not all that enamored with it personally. It seems a good translation but not substantially better than the NASB95 or the NIV, IMHO. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

OF course, when you have multiple translations in English, how different can they all be? Still, I think the ESV is much anticipated, due to the lack of total satisfaction I stated above with the NASB, NKJV and especially the NIV. I do believe the ESV is the translation the NKJV and NASB should have been.

 

Every new version that comes out makes the claim of importance and accuracy. With all the new versions that have hit the market in the last 120 years you would think by now somebody would get it right. Obviously the so-called scholars are getting it wrong each and every time.

Bro. Steve Smith

P.S. Since this particular "translation" claims the RSV as its starting point then there is an important conclusion that we can make without even looking at it: The ones who are recommending it are obviously apostates.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Chris Temple:
Please leave this thread alone for sane discussions of an important and accurate new English version. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Pioneer:


Bro. Steve Smith

P.S. Since this particular "translation" claims the RSV as its starting point then there is an important conclusion that we can make without even looking at it: The ones who are recommending it are obviously apostates.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Of course they are they believe in the inerrant, infallible word God, and relaible translations thereof. Such names as:

<UL TYPE=SQUARE> Dr. Clifford John Collins, OT Chairman
Associate Professor of Old Testament Covenant Theological Seminary
S.B., Massachusetts Institute of Technology
S.M., Massachusetts Institute of Technology
M.Div., Faith Evangelical Lutheran Seminary
Ph.D., University of Liverpool

Dr. Lane T. Dennis, Publishing Chairman
President, Good News Publishers-Crossway Books
B.S., Northern Illinois University
M.Div., McCormick Theological Seminary
Ph.D., Northwestern University

Dr. Wayne A. Grudem
Professor and Chairman, Department of Biblical and Systematic Theology, Trinity Evangelical Divinity School
B.A., Harvard University
M.Div., Westminster Theological Seminary
Ph.D., University of Cambridge

Dr. Paul R. House, OT Associate Chairman
Professor of Old Testament Trinity Episcopal School for Ministry
B.A., Southwest Baptist University
M.A., University of Missouri-Columbia
M.Div., The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary
Ph.D., The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary

Dr. R. Kent Hughes
Senior Pastor, College Church in Wheaton
B.A., Whittier College
M.Div., Talbot Theological Seminary
D.Min., Trinity Evangelical Divinity School

Dr. Robert H. Mounce, NT Associate Chairman
President Emeritus, Whitworth College
B.A., University of Washington
B.D., Fuller Theological Seminary
Th.M., Fuller Theological Seminary
Ph.D., University of Aberdeen

Dr. William D. Mounce, NT Chairman
Professor of New Testament Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary
B.A., Bethel College
M.A., Fuller Theological Seminary
Ph.D., University of Aberdeen

Dr. J. I. Packer, ESVTM General Editor
Board of Governors and Professor of Theology Regent College (Vancouver, BC)
B.A., Oxford University
M.A., Oxford University
D.Phil., Oxford University

Dr. Leland Ryken, Literary Chairman
Professor of English, Wheaton College
B.A., Central College
Ph.D., University of Oregon

Dr. Vern Sheridan Poythress
Professor of New Testament Interpretation, Westminster Theological Seminary
B.S., California Institute of Technology
Ph.D., Harvard University
M.Div., Westminster Theological Seminary
Th.M., Westminster Theological Seminary
M.Litt., University of Cambridge
D.Th., University of Stellenbosch

Dr. Gordon Wenham, OT Associate Chairman
Senior Lecturer in Religious Studies, The College of St. Paul and St. Mary (Cheltenham, England)
B.A., Cambridge University
M.A., Cambridge University
Ph.D., King's College, London University

Dr. Bruce Winter
Warden, Tyndale House (Cambridge, England)
B. A., University of Queensland
M.Theo., SEA Graduate School
Ph.D., Macquarie University
Adjunct Members

Rev. David Jones
ESVTM Associate Editor
Good News Publishers-Crossway Books
Rev. E. Marvin Padgett
Vice President, Editorial
Good News Publishers-Crossway Books

Advisory Council The Advisory Council includes people from many denominational backgrounds from around the world. All are widely recognized for their evangelical leadership, and are people who love God’s Word and affirm the inerrancy of the Bible.
Rev. Eric J. Alexander
Retired Pastor, St. George's-Tron Parish Church
Scotland, UK
Dr. Don H. Argue
President, Northwest College
Kirkland, WA
Dr. Hudson T. Armerding
President Emeritus, Wheaton College
Wheaton, IL
Dr. S. M. Baugh
Associate Professor of New Testament Westminster
Theological Seminary
Escondido, CA
Rev. Alistair Begg
Senior Pastor, Parkside Church
Bainbridge, OH
The Rt. Rev. Bishop Wallace Benn
Bishop of Lewes, Church of England
Eastbourne, UK
Dr. Harold O. J. Brown
Professor of Systematic Theology
Reformed Theological Seminary
Charlotte, NC
Lady Elizabeth Catherwood
Editor, London, UK
Sir Fred Catherwood
President, Evangelical Alliance
London, UK
Dr. Bryan Chapell
President, Covenant Theological Seminary
St. Louis, MO
Dr. Edmund P. Clowney
President Emeritus, Westminster Theological Seminary
Escondido, CA
Dr. Jack Cottrell
Professor of Theology
Cincinnati Bible Seminary
Cincinnati, OH
Dr. Jack Deere
President, Evangelical Foundation Ministries
Dallas, TX
Rev. Jon M. Dennis
Associate Pastor, Holy Trinity Church
Hyde Park, Chicago, IL
Dr. Ajith Fernando
National Director, Youth for Christ
Sri Lanka
Rev. Dr. Paul Gardner
Vicar, St. Johns Church
Hartford, UK
Dr. Timothy George
Dean, Beeson Divinity School
Birmingham, AL
Dr. Scott J. Hafemann
Professor, Greek and Exegesis
Hawthorne Chair of New Testament
Wheaton College
Wheaton, IL
Rev. David Helm
Senior Pastor, Holy Trinity Church
Chicago, IL
Dr. Carl F. H. Henry
Theologian and Founding Editor of Christianity Today
Watertown, WI
Rev. Todd Hunter
National Director, Association of Vineyard Churches, USA
Anaheim, CA
Dr. W. Bingham Hunter
Sr. Vice President for Education and Academic Dean Trinity Evangelical Divinity School
Deerfield, IL
Rev. Phillip D. Jensen
Rector, St. Matthias Church
Sydney, Australia
Dr. S. Lewis Johnson, Jr.
Former Professor of Biblical and Systematic Theology
Trinity Evangelical Divinity School
Deerfield, IL
Dr. Kenneth Kantzer
Dean Emeritus and Distinguished Professor
Trinity Evangelical Divinity School
Deerfield, IL
Dr. Robert Lewis
Teaching Pastor, Fellowship Bible Church
Little Rock, AR
Dr. Erwin W. Lutzer Pastor, Moody Church
Chicago, IL
Rev. Ranald Macaulay
L'Abri Fellowship, Cambridge, UK
Mrs. Susan Schaeffer Macaulay
L'Abri Fellowship, Cambridge, UK

Dr. Dennis R. Magary
Associate Professor of Old Testament and Semitic Languages
Trinity Evangelical Divinity School
Deerfield, IL
Dr. Walter A. Maier III
Professor of Old Testament
Concordia Theological Seminary
Fort Wayne, IN
Dr. R. Albert Mohler, Jr.
President
The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary
Louisville, KY
Dr. Joel H. Nederhood
Director of Ministries Emeritus
Back to God Hour
Grand Rapids, MI
Rev. Raymond C. Ortlund
President, Renewal Ministries
Newport Beach, CA
Dr. Raymond C. Ortlund, Jr.
Pastor, First Presbyterian Church
Augusta, GA
Dr. Douglas A. Oss
Pastor, Capital Christian Center
Salt Lake City, UT
Dr. John N. Oswalt
Research Professor of Old Testament
Wesley Biblical Seminary
Jackson, MS
Dr. Dorothy Kelley Patterson
Assistant Professor of Women's Studies
Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary
Wake Forest, NC
Dr. Paige Patterson
President, Southern Baptist Convention
President, Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary Wake Forest, NC
Dr. David Peterson
Principal, Oak Hill College
London, UK
Dr. John Piper
Senior Pastor, Bethlehem Baptist Church
Minneapolis, MN
Dr. Robert S. Ricker
President, Baptist General Conference
Arlington Heights, IL
Dr. Thomas R. Schreiner
Professor of New Testament Interpretation
Southern Baptist Theological Seminary
Louisville, KY
Dr. J. Julius Scott, Jr.
Professor of Biblical and Historical Studies
Wheaton College
Wheaton, IL
Dr. R. C. Sproul
Chairman, Ligonier Ministries
Lake Mary, FL
Dr. Joseph M. Stowell
President, Moody Bible Institute
Chicago, IL
Dr. Mark R. Talbot
Associate Professor of Philosophy
Wheaton College
Wheaton, IL
Dr. Willem A. VanGemeren
Professor of Old Testament and Semitic Languages
Trinity Evangelical Divinity School
Deerfield, IL
Dr. John F. Walvoord
Chancellor, Dallas Theological Seminary
Dallas, TX
Dr. Gregory Waybright
President, Trinity International University
Deerfield, IL
Dr. Luder G. Whitlock
President, Reformed Theological Seminary
Jackson, MS
Dr. Tetsunao Yamamori
President, Food for the Hungry
Scottsdale, AZ
Dr. Robert W. Yarbrough
Associate Professor of New Testament
Trinity Evangelical Divinity School
Deerfield, IL
Rev. John W. Yates II
Rector, The Falls Church
Falls Church, VA[/list]

P.S. Don't use the monicker "Bro." and call fellow believers apostate.

[ September 08, 2001: Message edited by: Chris Temple ]

 

2 questions:

#1 - What is the "inerrant, infallible word of God"?

#2 - Are you saying that the RSV is a "reliable translation".

Bro. Steve Smith

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Chris Temple:
Of course they are: they believe in the inerrant, infallible word God, and relaible translations thereof. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

 

Pioneer,

Please study up on all the threads in this forum. The questions you are asking have already been hashed over a gazillion times!

 

This has nothing to do with other threads. Proponents of any modern version always refer to the "original autographs" when speaking of the "inerrant, infallible word of God" which has absolutely nothing to do with the here and now. Secondly, the RSV is an apostate translation that is promoted by the National Council of Churches.

Bro. Steve Smith


<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by John Wells:
Pioneer,

Please study up on all the threads in this forum. The questions you are asking have already been hashed over a gazillion times!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

[ September 08, 2001: Message edited by: Pioneer ]

 

Pioneer,

Your first post/statement demonstrates a narrowminded view and lack of knowledge concerning the advances in recent years in the understanding of the ancient languages and in the customs and culture that archaeology have benefitted us, in rendering superior translations. The KJV is a beautiful translation, but God did not stamp it "Final Edition!" Since you seem to think God did, please provide evidence of it, scripturally or otherwise.

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Pioneer:
Proponents of any modern version always refer to the "original autographs" when speaking of the "inerrant, infallible word of God" which has absolutely nothing to do with the here and now.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Only if you deny that the here and now (extant manuscripts) came from the original autographs. The original autographs are the only thing that inspiration and inerrancy can be argued for. What we have now is the fruit of years of copying.

At some point you must admit that there are no two manuscripts that match. They are all different and none is complete. How in the world do you decide which of those manuscripts are the "right ones"?

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> Secondly, the RSV is an apostate translation that is promoted by the National Council of Churches.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

But it doesn't concern you that the KJV was translated and grew out of the apostate Anglican church? You need to be consistent. In the old saying, "What's good for the goose is good for the gander."

Of course, we are a bit out of the topic here and as Wells said, this has been hashed to death in other forums.

 

Chris, Pastor Larry is right on the point that alot of people won't change because they used the KJV (as I did in the 50's) or another when they became christians.
I like the KJV the best and it is like an old friend, I'm not about to trade my wife in, she has been around for a long time also. I know her well as I know my bible. Now I do have the NAS,NKJ and NIV but to me I'll stay with the old one.
Some people like change, some live for change and some like to leave well enough alone.
Of what I've read of other version they are for the most part the same,so why change.
I can see a need for the new versions, because of the lack of good education in our public schools.
I think most will stay with what they started studing with.
Not trying to say anything bad about the ESV.

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TomVols:
Pastor Larry wrote:

Oh go on, this has never stopped anyone else
So your vote is that you will not "switch."
Chris, what about you? Anyone else?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I do believe that the majority of evangelical pastor/teachers/professors will switch to the ESV. A couple of ministries like John Piper's and Erwin Lutzer's have already decided to do so. It seems that mostly those who use the NASB will switch to the ESV as its the smoothest transition.

But I realize many will not, especially KJV users. But once people's favorite author/preacher begins using it, so will many of the people as well.

 

The ESV may indeed be THE conservative translation of this new century. The NIV, however, is such a popular translation, with a wide-variety of 'helps' and curriculum that use it, it will not be easy for the ESV to 'topple' 'King NIV'! I am surprised that the folks at the ESV-factory didn't get this new Bible out BEFORE the 'school year' began. Some 'classes' have had to 'opt' for another conservative translation other than the ESV because it simply was not available. My own church is a 'case-in-point'. I am leading an in-depth 33 week Bible study, and had to pick the NIV as the biblical text, but would have loved to had the ESV available. I'm also surprised that the ESV didn't publish an Apocrypha, as the Orthodox (and maybe even RC) would have loved this translation in their churches.