Eternal Life Now or only in the Future?

[DeafPosttrib]

I agree with Brother Bob.

When we born again, then we should not commit sins, we must stop doing sins while repent same time. In 1John 3:6 tells us clear, anyone abiding in Christ do not commit sin, also, in 1 John 3:9 says, "Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin. for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God." This telling us, when we accept Christ, we must change our life with repent, and do not continue sinning, because the seed of Christ is in us. This is the commandment from God that, we do not continue sin after we received Christ at salvation. If we continue sin, then we will not be abide in Christ, we could be off from Christ and cast in everlasting fire in John 15:1-6.

Remember a passage tells about adultery in John 8:1-11. The Pharisees brought woman to Jesus, and they told him, that they are going to cast stones at her. Jesus wrote on the ground, tells do anyone have no sin, then can throw stone at her? THey dropped stones and walked away, because they are hyprocrisy with their sins. Then, Christ told harlot, "Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more." I am sure that a woman listened Christ and she obeyed him, not to commit sin afterward.

Also, I would like to say on John 3:16, notice in KJV says, 'should not perish'. It is a future sense. This passage doesn't saying it is already automatic saved at once when after we believED in Christ have eternal life. This passage telling us, it promises us, anyone who believing in Christ, will not go to hell, but have eternal life. That means, a person is continue believing in Christ will not go to hell. But, if a person stopped believing, will be cut off just like as Romans 11:19-23.

Notice John 3:21 says, "But he that DOETH truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God."

It tells us, a person who is born again, is doing the truth and continue in the light, person's action can be revealed that a person is wrought in God. That mean, a person is obey and walk in the light, show that person have true fruit is wrought in God.

Or, if a person hating light(God's way), and love the world, walk in the dark, then he shall not be abide in Christ.

See? It talk about repentance.

Repentance always with salvation. No repent, go perish- hell in Luke 13:5.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

 

[Ed Edwards]

Here is the OSAS reading of John 3:16:

John 3:16 (KJV1611 Edition):
For God so loued ye world, that he gaue his
only begotten Sonne: that whosoeuer
beleeueth in him, should not perish,
but haue euerlasting life.

Here is the John 3:16 that some non-OSAS
use:

For God so loved the world, that he gave his
only begotten Sonne: that whosoever
CONTINUES to believe in him, should not perish,
but have [cut:everlasting ] life THAT LASTS UNTIL
THEY LOOSE THEIR MIND IN OLD AGE:
DIMENSIA, ALZHEIMERS, ETC.

If you are saved, you have everlasting life
RIGHT NOW. If you are not saved, you need
to get saved.

 

[drfuss]

Here is just one of the scriptures in the OP that says we do not have eternal life now, but will receive eternal life in the age to come.

Matt. 18:29,30 - "I tell you the truth," Jesus said to them, "no one who has left home or wife or brothers or parents or children for the sake of the kingdom of God will fail to receive many times as much in this age and, in the age to come, eternal life"

Note that Jesus says nothing about receiving eternal life in this age. He reserves having eternal life only for the age to come. If we have eternal life now, He would have included it.

Believers have the promise of eternal life now. We have to wait for the age to come before we actually receive it.

 

[TCGreek]

1. Then what do you do with John's statements: "And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

1Jn 5:12 Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life.

1Jn 5:13 I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life" (emphasis added).

2. I wish not to put John against Jesus, but we must understand both within their respective context.

3. Jesus says eternal life is in another age; John says that we have eternal life now.

 

[Brother Bob]

Here is just one of the scriptures in the OP that says we do not have eternal life now, but will receive eternal life in the age to come.

Matt. 18:29,30 - "I tell you the truth," Jesus said to them, "no one who has left home or wife or brothers or parents or children for the sake of the kingdom of God will fail to receive many times as much in this age and, in the age to come, eternal life"

Note that Jesus says nothing about receiving eternal life in this age. He reserves having eternal life only for the age to come. If we have eternal life now, He would have included it.

Believers have the promise of eternal life now. We have to wait for the age to come before we actually receive it.

Rom 8:21Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.


Also, means some part has already been delivered.

I have said it many times on BB, there is an inward man which is "born again" hath eternal life now. There is an outward man "flesh", which shall be delivered "also" in the resurrection.
Until you look at the scripture as there being an inward man and an outward man, you will not see them as they are.

BBob,

 

[TCGreek]

Rom 8:21Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.


Also, means some part has already been delivered.

I have said it many times on BB, there is an inward man which is "born again" hath eternal life now. There is an outward man "flesh", which shall be delivered "also" in the resurrection.
Until you look at the scripture as there being an inward man and an outward man, you will not see them as they are.

BBob,

The brother is failing to see and deal with this obvious dichotomy that is presented in Scripture.

 

[Ed Edwards]

The parallel passage to that in Mark that talks about 'aeon's
doesn't talk about 'ages' ('world' in the KJV):

Mat 19:29-30 (KJV1611 Edition):
And euery one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren,
or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children,
or lands, for my Names sake, shall receiue
an hundred fold, and shall inherite euerlasting life.
30 But many that are first, shall be last,
and the last shall be first.

Here is the one in Mark:

Mar 10:30-31 (KJV1611 Edition):
But hee shall receiue an hundred fold now in this time,
houses, and brethren, and sisters,
and mothers, and children, and lands,
with persecutions; and in the world to come eternall life:
31 But many that are first, shall be last: and the last, first.

 

[steaver]

It is certainly very puzzling why drfuss cannot see the obvious fact that eternal life is both present and to come. Why do you want to accept one truth and reject the other? Does it help you to accept a particular doctrinal belief?

God Bless!:thumbs:

 

[steaver]

Here is just one of the scriptures in the OP that says we do not have eternal life now, but will receive eternal life in the age to come.

Matt. 18:29,30 - "I tell you the truth," Jesus said to them, "no one who has left home or wife or brothers or parents or children for the sake of the kingdom of God will fail to receive many times as much in this age and, in the age to come, eternal life"

Note that Jesus says nothing about receiving eternal life in this age. He reserves having eternal life only for the age to come. If we have eternal life now, He would have included it.

You error in your first sentence. The pasage does not say "we do not have eternal life now", this you add.

This is not how proper exegises is done. One cannot ASSUME a fact just because it was never mentioned. If this is how you study scripture you will be found confounded in every doctrine.

How about this one....Jhn 10:30 I and my Father are one.

No mention of the Holy Spirit. I guess the Holy Spirit is not part of the "One" since Jesus said nothing about the Spirit in this particular sentence.



God Bless! :thumbs:

 

[DHK]

I tell you what I do not believe that Christ's blood covered you or any one else to go and commit adultery.

I agree with you Bob. The very fact that one is a Christian does not give a Christian a licence to sin. And so it is with the blood of Christ. Because all of my sins are forgiven--past, present and future, that doesn't mean that I have a licence to sin. I have never even come close to suggesting as much. Please don't read into things that I don't say.

If you have done so, then I advise you to repent and make it right with God, before you die. I think that would be an abomination and putting him to an open shame.

First, I never said that. I never implied that. And I have never done that. So why the false accusation?

I also, do not believe someone who says that the saved can commit any sin known to mankind, such as adultery, pedophiles, rapist of children or anyone, murderers, liars, theives is giving the truth of the word of God, but teaching a doctrine that Satan loves, that might cause men to settle down on something less than salvation and cause them to be lost. I did not know men taught such doctrine until I came on BB. All that I know of all denominations teach that such is lost and if they never repent will be in the LoF.

But this is where your inconsistency lies. Let me quote quote you except leaving out some of the sins--in other words, just the essence of what you said:

"I also do not believe someone who says that the saved can commit any sin known to mankind such as...lies...is giving the truth of God."

In essence, you believe it is wrong me to teach that it is possible for a Christian to tell lies, even though that is what the Bible teaches. It teaches that all men lie. All men are sinners. There is none good no not one. "The heart is deceitful above all things..." Even you tell lies Bob. I know that because the Bible tells me so. And, an unconfessed lie is just as bad as unconfessed adultery. According to your theology any unconfessed sin will keep a believer out of heaven. That is where I conclude that you don't believe that the blood is sufficient enough to cover all your sins. (Now you probably don't believe that--but that is my logical conclusion rusulting from what you have told me thus far.)

As far as David. Who do you think held his life in His hands. I give you your breath and you live, I take it and you die. David suffered for what he had done, but many in Israel did not and were cut off, guess what for, for playing the role of a harlot and adultery, the sins you always make an excuse for if you are saved, as you say, not me.

David was declared righteous by God. He was declared righteous because he believed on him, not because of his good works, and he didn't lose his righteousness because of his bad works or sins. If he did then that would have been a works based salvation. Thus if David had died before Nathan had gotten to him he would have gone straight to heaven because he had already been declared righteous in God's sight.

Romans 4:6-7 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

I pray, if you decide to ban me from BB, you will tell the truth and not say that BBob taught the saved could not sin, or were without sin, but the saved did commit sin not unto death. The saved do not commit the list I gave above as abomination to God. It would be a first to ban someone for teaching men if they are born again, that they will be kept by the power of God which will not let them "sin unto death", but will, by His Grace, keep them body, soul and spirit to be presented blameless in the day of the resurrection. I hope you post every posts I ever made on BB for all to read!

I am so glad that I do not teach what you do.[/quote]
Please believe me, Bob, I am not out to get you banned. That is the furthest thing from my mind. I have had many good discussions with you, and if they don't get you too upset, I like to continue. On another thread on repentance, there was much truth that was brought out on that subject. I trust you could see by that thread that it wasn't simply me posting my opinion: one against one. For their were many that voiced the same theology that I had already expressed.

We may differ Bob, but I still count you as a brother in the Lord,

 

[BobRyan]

Here is the OSAS reading of John 3:16: that "some" use

John 3:16 :
For God so loued ye world, that he gaue his
only begotten Sonne: that whosoeuer
belieVED in him ever at any time in the past should not perish EVEN if they are in a state of unbelief such that they DO NOT BELIEVE in Him - yes even UNBELIEVERS should haue euerlasting life.

IF you BELIEVE you have everlasting life

If you DO NOT BELIEVE - you do not.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Eph 2 - "we are seated with him in the heavenly places" by faith now - even though in reality this does not happen until the Rev 20 event.

1. Mark 10:30
   but that he will receive a hundred times as much now in the present age, houses and brothers and sisters and mothers and children and farms, along with persecutions; and in the age to come, eternal life.
2. Luke 18:30
   who will not receive many times as much at this time and in the age to come, eternal life."

Eternal life is not received until the 1Thess 4 and Rev 20 "event" of the age to come.

 

[Brother Bob]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brother Bob
I tell you what I do not believe that Christ's blood covered you or any one else to go and commit adultery.

I agree with you Bob. The very fact that one is a Christian does not give a Christian a licence to sin. And so it is with the blood of Christ. Because all of my sins are forgiven--past, present and future, that doesn't mean that I have a licence to sin. I have never even come close to suggesting as much. Please don't read into things that I don't say. (You said a man could die in the very act of adultery and still besaved).

Quote:
If you have done so, then I advise you to repent and make it right with God, before you die. I think that would be an abomination and putting him to an open shame.
First, I never said that. I never implied that. And I have never done that. So why the false accusation? (Not accusing, you told me already you were not guilty of such and I believe you. I don't think you lie from what I know of you, wish I could say the same of how you feel about me)

Quote:
I also, do not believe someone who says that the saved can commit any sin known to mankind, such as adultery, pedophiles, rapist of children or anyone, murderers, liars, theives is giving the truth of the word of God, but teaching a doctrine that Satan loves, that might cause men to settle down on something less than salvation and cause them to be lost. I did not know men taught such doctrine until I came on BB. All that I know of all denominations teach that such is lost and if they never repent will be in the LoF.
But this is where your inconsistency lies. Let me quote quote you except leaving out some of the sins--in other words, just the essence of what you said:

"I also do not believe someone who says that the saved can commit any sin known to mankind such as...lies...is giving the truth of God."

In essence, you believe it is wrong me to teach that it is possible for a Christian to tell lies, even though that is what the Bible teaches. It teaches that all men lie. All men are sinners. There is none good no not one. "The heart is deceitful above all things..." Even you tell lies Bob. I know that because the Bible tells me so. And, an unconfessed lie is just as bad as unconfessed adultery. According to your theology any unconfessed sin will keep a believer out of heaven. That is where I conclude that you don't believe that the blood is sufficient enough to cover all your sins. (Now you probably don't believe that--but that is my logical conclusion rusulting from what you have told me thus far.) (Can you prove that I do any of those things, if so I will have to repent and ask God to forgive me, I don't think you can.)
Quote:
As far as David. Who do you think held his life in His hands. I give you your breath and you live, I take it and you die. David suffered for what he had done, but many in Israel did not and were cut off, guess what for, for playing the role of a harlot and adultery, the sins you always make an excuse for if you are saved, as you say, not me.
David was declared righteous by God. He was declared righteous because he believed on him, not because of his good works, and he didn't lose his righteousness because of his bad works or sins. If he did then that would have been a works based salvation. Thus if David had died before Nathan had gotten to him he would have gone straight to heaven because he had already been declared righteous in God's sight. ( God put up with a lot in David's time that you can't do now. I doubt if you have any concubines.)


Romans 4:6-7 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.(He is talking about all them sins He forgave you for and expecting you to live for Him after being born again and not be out serving the Devil.)

I pray, if you decide to ban me from BB, you will tell the truth and not say that BBob taught the saved could not sin, or were without sin, but the saved did commit sin not unto death. The saved do not commit the list I gave above as abomination to God. It would be a first to ban someone for teaching men if they are born again, that they will be kept by the power of God which will not let them "sin unto death", but will, by His Grace, keep them body, soul and spirit to be presented blameless in the day of the resurrection. I hope you post every posts I ever made on BB for all to read!

I am so glad that I do not teach what you do.

Please believe me, Bob, I am not out to get you banned. That is the furthest thing from my mind. I have had many good discussions with you, and if they don't get you too upset, I like to continue. On another thread on repentance, there was much truth that was brought out on that subject. I trust you could see by that thread that it wasn't simply me posting my opinion: one against one. For their were many that voiced the same theology that I had already expressed. ( I know there are many who agree with you and that is what I find so sad, that the greatest number of Baptist are teaching that the "saved" can commit any sin known unto mankind and still be saved. I teach the saved don't do those things.)

We may differ Bob, but I still count you as a brother in the Lord,
__________________
DHK
[/quote]
Well, I hope we can continue in our debates and in the thread of repentance, I think you need to reread it, for there are several that are starting to see the light.

Because I debate as I do, is no reason to consider me upset beyond reason. When I post as I did this time, its because of what you say about me, as if I don't even know what salvation is for instance. I defend myself when someone says that.

God Bless, We may become friends yet if I don't get kicked off first...............

 

[convicted1]

RE: Eternal life now, or only in the future?

I'll put it to y'all like this. When we are born again, we are RESURRECTED from a dead state to a lively hope. The "inward" man is ready to go at a moment's notice. Our "outward" man is waiting on the change that will take place when Christ comes back in the Cloud of Glory. The "inward" man is CLEANED up with the blood of Christ making our robe white in the Blood of the Lamb. When we die, our soul will go back to God who gave it. Our body will go back to the dust from which it came...provided He doesn't come back before we die the "natural" death. If we go to God when we die, then how do we not have eternal life now? We are going to sleep/rest from our labors, and when Jesus comes back in the cloud, our soul will "reunite" with our natural body, only changed to a GLORIOUS spiritual body when it comes up out of the grave. It makes me leap with joy while typing this!! Praise His High and Holy name!! I am ready to go anytime He wants me!! Praise you Lord!!!:jesus: :godisgood:

 

[drfuss]

It is certainly very puzzling why drfuss cannot see the obvious fact that eternal life is both present and to come. Why do you want to accept one truth and reject the other? Does it help you to accept a particular doctrinal belief?

God Bless!:thumbs:

drfuss: I just found some information that I think explains it very well. Some on here may, in effect, have been saying this, but this is concise and explains it well to me. It is given below.

"Now, but not yet.

We have eternal life in a couple different senses. First, we have eternal life is that an individual will never cease to be... even in the lake of fire. Second, we have eternal spiritual life in that our spirit is renewed/renovated in the moment of salvation. Third, we will have eternal physical life in the era of the millennial kingdom and eternity future. So the "now" is the first two types of eternal life, and the "not yet" is the third one.

So all three are technically correct, but it would do us good to define which kind of eternal life we want to talk about. For example, Jesus switches back and forth between talking about both the second and third type of eternal life, while the first one just kind of "is". So we have eternal spiritual life when we are saved, but we have eternal PHYSICAL life when we receive our resurrected bodies in the Millennium."

Thank you all for your inputs.

 

[BobRyan]

#1. I agree with you that we will really have eternal life future - "in the age to come" when we actually really do "live forever".

#2. I think it is instructive that you call "the Second Death" -- "Eternal life" in that post. Surely you have to admit that no promise of eternal life in all of scripture has as its object "The Second Death"

in Christ,

Bob

 

[drfuss]

Here is another (perhaps better) way of describing eternal life.

And not only this, but also we ourselves, having the first fruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our body. For in hope we have been saved, but hope that is seen is not hope; for who hopes for what he already sees? But if we hope for what we do not see, with perseverance we wait eagerly for it. (Romans 8:23-25 NASB)

We do not have a full realization or experience of the Father and the Son here on earth. Which is another way of saying we do not have a full realization or experience of eternal life here in this life. We have the "first fruits". Because we have the first fruits we eagerly wait. If you don't have a taste of eternal life you will not want more. We experience it in part now and in its fullness when we see Him face to face.