Eternal Security - No debate

Polycarp..... :applause:

 

What did Polycarp say?

 

Sorry, I don't see that in his letter to Philippi. Where is it found?

Polycarp is a fascinating study, isn't he?

 

Not trying to debate or cause problems, but John Calvin did not believe in "eternal security"... he believed in "perseverance of the saints."

If you take the time to really study the positions you will see that they are not the same, even though most Calvinist would like to tell you they are.

Max

 

If you are talking only about the very basic concept "once saved, always saved" then I suppose you are correct.

As to your historical question... I have read somewhere of the Waldenses as early as the 14th century being Calvinistic (before Calvin). Forgive my memory lapse on the source, I will try to find it. I came across it when I was doing a study about "eternal security" throughout church history.

Max

 

Somebody tell me what Polycarp said about OSAS

 

Since we only have one surviving text from Polycarp and it isn't that long, this should be easy to show.

The following link has 3 english translations of Polycarp to the Philippians.



I personally would agree with the OP that it started with Calvin, but I haven't really researched this topic.

 

I just read Lightfoot's translation and I didn't see anything in it that looked like OSAS. In fact, he says "He that raised Him from the dead will raise us also; if we do His will and walk in His commandments and love the things which He loved" (2:2) and "if we be well pleasing unto Him in this present world, we shall receive the future world also" (5:2), which sounds like conditional security.

I guess I overlooked it. What did Polycarp say about OSAS?

 

Actually, most Calvinists that I know, myself included, would tell you that they are not the same.

Hebrews 3:14 - "For we share in Christ, if indeed we hold our original confidence firm to the end."

Perhaps it would help if our OP poster would define "eternal security".

 

Just to clarify - I've been told that a person may sincerely pray to receive Christ and then later renounce that belief and still be saved. Would you agree or disagree?

 

That's clearer, thanks. Unfortunately, I do not know who was the first theologian or group that publically believed in eternal security (according to that definition) during and after Martin Luther's time. Did Luther not believe something similar?

 

Don't know if we can find when the term OSAS began, but we know its beginning. Belief in "eternal security" is not the same as OSAS, in understanding when OSAS began. We know the beginning of both, and "eternal security" began at the beginning.

 

I would give you the answer if I could Pipedude because you're an alright guy, but I didn't even know those kind of fish could talk.

 

Here is the Scripture but you have to be a free-will because its after you "believe" that you receive this seal.

Ephesians, chapter 1

"13": In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, :wavey: :godisgood: