Eternal Security Question

Both passages are proof texts for OSAS = once saved,
always saved. The form of logic being used by Paul
is called (in Latin) Reduction Ad Absurdum and
in English Reduction to the Absurd.

In Reduction Ad Absurdum logic, one begins with a
proposition, does the logic to a conclusion,
shows that conclulsion is obviously false (or absurd) - this
'Proves' the beginning
proposition, FALSE (this does mean all other
starting propositions must be true).

In the Hebrews six case, if you propose that
one who is saved by Messiah Yeshua can then
be lost (i.e. OSAS is false) then you come to the
absurdity that that Messiah Jesus (Lord and Creator
of the Universe) shall be crucified again - FALSE,
Jesus cannot be crucified again; it is FALSE
that "OSAS is false" so OSAS is TRUE.

OSAS = Once Saved, Always Saved,
is about the Fidelity of Father God, Creator of the Universe,
& etc. OSAS is not about the perfidy of human beans.

 

Human beans! :laugh: :laugh:

 

1. I think the key is in v.9: "Though we speak in this way, yet in your case, beloved, we feel sure of better things—things that belong to salvation" (Heb 6:9, ESV).

2. Let me offer my translation of this passage to bring a point across:πεπεισμεθα δε περι υμων αγαπητοι τα κρεισσονα και εχομενα σωτηριας ει και ουτως λαλουμεν : "Now, we have confidence of better things concerning you, beloved, even things pertaining to salvation, even if we so speak/ though we speak in this manner" (TCG).

3. Notice several things from this verse:

a. The writer has "better things" for his readers.

b. "Even things pertaining to salvation."

c. And the clincher, "Even if we so speak." It is a manner of speaker.

4. So if it is a manner of speaking, then we should look at a clearer passage that addresses our eternal salvation: John 10: "My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand" (ESV).

5. The strongest form of the Greek negation is used, ου μη απολωνται
, "never ever perish."

 

No fair. That's alway been my line. Although I can't think of a reason why I didn't post it.

 

Sorry, but I got to it first. Perhaps, next time.:thumbs:

 

The phrase 'human beans' came from a (perchance?)
1985 conversation on a Computer bullentin board (bb)
about Sunday Schools and bean counting pastors;
dunk-'em-&-count-'em denominations, etc.

 

It predates that! I've heard it from 1940s cartoons.

 

Ed; I be posting a long time it meant how impossible it is for the "saved" to lose their salvation. I seem to be standing alone on the other thread on this issue. If anyone is supporting me, I fail to notice.
I have said for many years that Heb 6:4 is just another scripture supporting OSAS. blessings,

BBob

 

If a person can become "unborn" from above, then there is a direct contradiction to Acts 16:31. Every major text, and AFAIK, every manuscript that I've ever seen all say the same thing. (Except some of the add the word "Christ" after "Lord Jesus".)

So, you have to ask if the Bible contradicts itself. If it does, what good is it? How many contradictions is a person willing to accept?

If it does not contradict itself, then you have to look at why some passages that are warnings to saved people seem to contradict itself.

If OSAS is not true, then the Bible lies.