Evangelical Fads

[Reformed]

Phil Johnson shared this video yesterday with the following comment:

"Every time a new evangelical fad comes along, thousands of naive churchgoers dutifully jump into the parade, and this is pretty much what always happens. #downgrade"

It could not be truer.

P.S. The action starts at 0:43.

 

[rlvaughn]

And this is not new; I have noticed it going on pretty much since I was a young preacher.

 

[Ziggy]

Remember the SBC Bold Mission Thrust of the early 70s, by which the claim was made that the entire population of the world would be evangelized by the year 2000? Everyone got on board at first, but when it didn't start coming to pass, everyone stopped talking about it.

 

[Iconoclast]

The down grade from Confessional Christianity, to that which is quick, easy, and gets numerical results,has been startling yet not totally surprising.
The video captures the image of what is going on in many churches.
The helicopter is counting those who came forward for this ill fated ride.

 

[rlvaughn]

Interesting read, Church Growth: The Old and New Baptist Way

Compare these results [Stearns & Marshall, rlv] with those of Bob Gray at Longview Baptist Temple in Texas.
Mr. Gray claims to have led 1,116,887 people to Christ, yet he lives in a town with less than 82,000 people and a county of less than 124,000. Comparing the attendance at his religious organization with the numbers of people he claims to have won to Christ, less than 0.2% of the "converts" attend his church even on Sunday mornings. The region of Texas with his church is not by anyone's wildest dream changed the way it would be if there had been over a million people who were converted the Bible way to the Biblical God, by means of the Biblical gospel that was preached by the old Baptists.

I clipped this part particularly because I know of this church, living only about 40 miles from its meeting place.

 

[JonC]

Evangelical fads are often (if not always) reactionary. Calvinism could be viewed as a fad (a reaction against a preceived absence of doctrine). They cannot be avoided and I think can be valuable (they often point to legitimate concerns).

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Evangelical fads are often (if not always) reactionary.

No they're not.

Calvinism could be viewed as a fad (a reaction against a preceived [sic] absence of doctrine).

Only by you.

As a new Christian I was told that I had to attend the new Vineyard church that had just opened in the nearby city.
Why? Because they served doughnuts halfway through the meeting! So I went along. The place was packed. There was about 45 minutes of bangin' electric 'praise' music, and then, sure enough, the doughnuts -- with jam!. There was then a talk (not a sermon) and some prayer, but nobody much cared about that.

The thing continued very popular for a few years until a new charismatic church opened in the city that had a better praise band, so everyone went there. I never found out if they served doughnuts there as well.

 

[rlvaughn]

I never found out if they served doughnuts there as well.

In keeping with the way things are done, I'd say they had bigger doughnuts and better jam.

 

[JonC]

No they're not.

Only by you.

As a new Christian I was told that I had to attend the new Vineyard church that had just opened in the nearby city.
Why? Because they served doughnuts halfway through the meeting! So I went along. The place was packed. There was about 45 minutes of bangin' electric 'praise' music, and then, sure enough, the doughnuts -- with jam!. There was then a talk (not a sermon) and some prayer, but nobody much cared about that.

The thing continued very popular for a few years until a new charismatic church opened in the city that had a better praise band, so everyone went there. I never found out if they served doughnuts there as well.

Do you think they offered donuts to get people to come to the place? Perhaps as a reaction to attendance? Or comfort?

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Do you think they offered donuts to get people to come to the place? Perhaps as a reaction to attendance? Or comfort?

I worked in sales most of my life. To achieve higher market share one needed a U.S.P. -- a Unique Selling Point. This might be extended warranty, lower price, extra features..........or doughnuts.

 

[JonC]

I worked in sales most of my life. To achieve higher market share one needed a U.S.P. -- a Unique Selling Point. This might be extended warranty, lower price, extra features..........or doughnuts.

Who would go for a jelly filled donut??? That does not make sense.

But you may be able to persuade me to become Reformed if you have a cream filled donut. Or Arminian....whatever it takes.

 

[Reynolds]

Who would go for a jelly filled donut??? That does not make sense.

But you may be able to persuade me to become Reformed if you have a cream filled donut. Or Arminian....whatever it takes.

A true Calvinist will not try to persuade you or me to do anything. A true Calvinist is not pragmatic. They measure their success on how accurately the Word is preached. They do not value results. Its the new Calvinists and the neo Calvinists who have jumped on results based analysis. Many of the old Calvinists are scolding them for it.

 

[Reynolds]

No they're not.

Only by you.

As a new Christian I was told that I had to attend the new Vineyard church that had just opened in the nearby city.
Why? Because they served doughnuts halfway through the meeting! So I went along. The place was packed. There was about 45 minutes of bangin' electric 'praise' music, and then, sure enough, the doughnuts -- with jam!. There was then a talk (not a sermon) and some prayer, but nobody much cared about that.

The thing continued very popular for a few years until a new charismatic church opened in the city that had a better praise band, so everyone went there. I never found out if they served doughnuts there as well.

I view the New Calvinism and the Neo Calvinism as a fad.

 

[Reformed]

A true Calvinist will not try to persuade you or me to do anything. A true Calvinist is not pragmatic. They measure their success on how accurately the Word is preached. They do not value results. Its the new Calvinists and the neo Calvinists who have jumped on results based analysis. Many of the old Calvinists are scolding them for it.

Give that man a cigar.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

 

[Reynolds]

The down grade from Confessional Christianity, to that which is quick, easy, and gets numerical results,has been startling yet not totally surprising.
The video captures the image of what is going on in many churches.
The helicopter is counting those who came forward for this ill fated ride.

And the Calvinists are doing it too. Ie. Matt Chandler

 

[Iconoclast]

He is not one of my guys, I do not follow the new batch. What is he doing?

 

[Reformed]

He is not one of my guys, I do not follow the new batch. What is he doing?

Brother, many of the neo-Calvinists are embracing an egalitarian approach to ministry while at the same time tamping down their Calvinist leanings. Matt Chandler and David Platt are well-known names but there are plenty of others.

 

[Reynolds]

He is not one of my guys, I do not follow the new batch. What is he doing?

Pretty much anything stupid that comes to mind he is probably doing it. Google quickly spills the beans.
In all seriousness, its the new batch like Chandler that are causing the general backlash against Calvinists.

 

[Yeshua1]

No they're not.

Only by you.

As a new Christian I was told that I had to attend the new Vineyard church that had just opened in the nearby city.
Why? Because they served doughnuts halfway through the meeting! So I went along. The place was packed. There was about 45 minutes of bangin' electric 'praise' music, and then, sure enough, the doughnuts -- with jam!. There was then a talk (not a sermon) and some prayer, but nobody much cared about that.

The thing continued very popular for a few years until a new charismatic church opened in the city that had a better praise band, so everyone went there. I never found out if they served doughnuts there as well.

Then we had the ole "seeker friendly" churches movement, where what was most important was not the scriptures, but people creature comforts catered too!

 

[Reynolds]

Then we had the ole "seeker friendly" churches movement, where what was most important was not the scriptures, but people creature comforts catered too!

Amazing how we continually bounce from ditch to ditch.