Excommunicated At Last!

[ROBERTGUWAPO]

Anyone ever been excommunicated here? Am I the first? Well, I recently got excommunicated (actually five of us, including my wife) for all the wrong reasons.

The church leadership's charges:
1. Disrespect to the church leadership.
2. Attitude of separatism.
3. Disrespect to Pentecostals.
4. Distributing letters :type: against wrong doctrine.
5. Etc...etc...etc...all flimsy and minor reasons

Actually, we were fighting against strange teachings and events that were gaining ground/happening. We opposed...
1. Pentecostal Baptism in the Spirit. :BangHead:
2. Pentecostal Speaking in Tongues.
3. Adoption of G12 Church Growth Program of Cesar Castellanos of International Charismatic Missions
4. Unbiblical Laying of Hands
5. Presence of Baptist-bashing Pentecostals in the pulpit.
6. Holding of strange bible sessions in a Pentecostal seminary.
7. Increasing stress on Experience over the Word of God.
8. Use of Pentecostal bible study materials.
9. Slaying in the Spirit.
10. Argggggghhhhh!!!

Our church, Fairview Christian Fellowship, is a Conservative Baptist-founded church. Over the years, our church has accepted Christians from all denominations--some from the charismatic variety. These some have, again over the years, gained leadership positions in the church council--from deacons to elders. Sigh.

The Funny thing is, the national CBA headquarters sided with the "Pentecostals" in our church despite the fact that all CB churches are supposed to strictly adhere to a position paper, which contains this statement:

“CBAP [Conservative Baptists Association of the Philippines] holds an historic, biblical position concerning baptism and the gifts of the Holy Spirit and stands distinct from those movements that are characterized as Pentecostal, neo-Pentecostal or charismatic. Baptism of the Spirit happens the moment a person trusts in Jesus Christ as personal Lord and Savior. Conservative Baptists reject the view that speaking in tongues is evidence of conversion. On the contrary, they regard speaking in tongues as least among the spiritual gifts. They do not subscribe to public healing meetings and excessive body movements in worship service. Convinced of the preeminence of Scripture in shaping the theology and practice of the Church, the Conservative Baptists do way with biblically questionable practices like being Slain in the Spirit, prophetic visioning, and holy laughter.”

Sigh.

At first, the scheming leadership gathered the majority of the members in a special congregational meeting to vote on our excommunication. After voting, they informed me that I was now excommunicated. However, I pointed out that according to the church's bylaws, a 2/3 vote was necessary. I pointed out before the whole congregation that they were, I guess, 11 votes short, to make 2/3.

Guess what? They held secret special meetings again, stressing the need to get rid of us so that the church can go forward with its Pentecostal G12 church growth program. In their next special and secret congregational meeting, they got their numbers.

Funny thing is--they haven't served us our excommunication papers. According to the church secretary, the five of us are excommunicated "verbally." They do not want to go on record, on paper. They are afraid, I guess, that we would "spread" our official excommunication papers to other churches.

I am sharing this experience not to boast, nor to gain sympathy, but to show that weird things may happen to Christians who fight for good doctrine.

Lessons learned:
1. Truth can be divisive.
2. Fighting for truth takes can be emotionally-draining. You would lose friends and even be treated as a leper in church.
3. I discovered that there is strong Fundamental blood in me. :laugh:

As for me, I am doing fine. Just a little disturbed at the turn of events. A little frustrated perhaps. I told my wifey this, "This excommunication--we wear as a badge of honor."
Is an excommunicated Baptist still welcome here? :wavey:

Backgrounder: http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=33443

 

[saturneptune]

Hi Robert,
There has not been an excommunication in my local church in decades. In fact, the last record of church discipline is in the 1930's, and that person was restored.

More often than not, a person gets mad at the pastor, or something about the church or its policy and leaves. Since there is a church on ever corner, it is quite a simple procedure.

There is quite a difference is losing fellowship because you are fighting for the truth and losing fellowship for blatant sin. It sounds like yours is the former. In that case, I would not give it a second thought, as ask God where He would have you to serve.

Our churches have deteriorated so much as far as standards go, one wonders how anyone could possibly be disfellowshipped for blatant sin. One of the worst standards is the local church roll itself. When 65% (and I am being generous) of the members have not darkened the doors in decades, and still members, what sin is worse than no signs of regeneration?

There is no doubt that there is a local church around you that preaches the Truth, and will be grateful for your time, money, and fellowship. May God bless you in this quest.

 

[ROBERTGUWAPO]

Hi Robert,
There has not been an excommunication in my local church in decades. In fact, the last record of church discipline is in the 1930's, and that person was restored.

More often than not, a person gets mad at the pastor, or something about the church or its policy and leaves. Since there is a church on ever corner, it is quite a simple procedure.

There is quite a difference is losing fellowship because you are fighting for the truth and losing fellowship for blatant sin. It sounds like yours is the former. In that case, I would not give it a second thought, as ask God where He would have you to serve.

Our churches have deteriorated so much as far as standards go, one wonders how anyone could possibly be disfellowshipped for blatant sin. One of the worst standards is the local church roll itself. When 65% (and I am being generous) of the members have not darkened the doors in decades, and still members, what sin is worse than no signs of regeneration?

There is no doubt that there is a local church around you that preaches the Truth, and will be grateful for your time, money, and fellowship. May God bless you in this quest.

Well, this time, they got me for all the WRONG reasons. :tonofbricks: The weird thing is, I used to teach "CHURCH DISCIPLINE" to all new members and transferees, which was a requirement, before being accepted as a member of our church. Fighting wrong doctrine sure ain't part of the list of sins that require excommunication. :thumbs:

 

[pinoybaptist]

...................................................Is an excommunicated Baptist still welcome here? :wavey:

I think so, but better check with the administrators.

By the way, that church is not the same Fairview church where Eddie Mesa used to go, is it ?

Nahh.

I don't think so.

The church Eddie used to go to was a Calvinistic one.

Do you live in the Lagro-Fairview area ?

 

[ROBERTGUWAPO]

Eddie Mesa's church is Fairview Fundamental Baptist Church. Our church is Fairview Christian Fellowship, 200 meters away. Yes, in the Fairview area.

I think so, but better check with the administrators.

By the way, that church is not the same Fairview church where Eddie Mesa used to go, is it ?

Nahh.

I don't think so.

The church Eddie used to go to was a Calvinistic one.

Do you live in the Lagro-Fairview area ?

 

[Salty]

Maybe its time for you to "excommunicate" the church. Are there others who agree with you?

If the CBA would not "authorize" a new church you could always go independent.

Remember, the church is not the building, but the body!

When fighting for the truth there are times we may have to sacrifice

Lord bless you

Salty

 

[ROBERTGUWAPO]

Excommunicating the church, I have already done. Two former pastors of our church who would not bow down to Pentecostalism agreed with us. :thumbs:

Maybe its time for you to "excommunicate" the church. Are there others who agree with you?

If the CBA would not "authorize" a new church you could always go independent.

Remember, the church is not the building, but the body!

When fighting for the truth there are times we may have to sacrifice

Lord bless you

Salty

 

[Salty]

Excommunicating the church, I have already done. Two former pastors of our church who would not bow down to Pentecostalism agreed with us. :thumbs:

AMEN:1_grouphug:

 

[just-want-peace]

"This excommunication--we wear as a badge of honor."
Is an excommunicated Baptist still welcome here? :wavey:

Sorta lika a boss I had once; due to his character, I considered it a compliment that he didn't particularly like me!

I, as you, wore this rejection as a "badge oh honor"!

 

[christianyouth]

This will be a load off your shoulders! :godisgood:

 

[Tom Butler]

There is a lesson here for all of us. It is, that our churches must carefully guard their doors. There is a sentiment that all that is necessary for us to be unified is our common belief in Jesus Christ, and everything else is secondary. Sad to say, that is a naive fantasy, if it were ever true.

With few exceptions, Baptist and Pentecostals cannot co-exist within a congregation. It is divisive from the get-go. Chuirches which think they're the exceptions are naive at best and spiritually illiterate at worst.

 

[canadyjd]

Eddie Mesa's church is Fairview Fundamental Baptist Church. Our church is Fairview Christian Fellowship, 200 meters away. Yes, in the Fairview area.

Despite your levity, I suspect this whole event has been stressful for you and your family. I hope you all have been drawn closer to our Savior.

On the other hand, the good news is that a solid, reformed, calvinistic church is only 200 meters away.:smilewinkgrin:

peace to youraying:

 

[Timsings]

There is a lesson here for all of us. It is, that our churches must carefully guard their doors. There is a sentiment that all that is necessary for us to be unified is our common belief in Jesus Christ, and everything else is secondary. Sad to say, that is a naive fantasy, if it were ever true. . . .

That lesson may be true, but it is not enough. About 15 years ago my in-laws were among seven tithers that were kicked out of their SBC church for "non-support of the pastor". This did not mean financial support. It meant going against the pastor's program and ideas for the church. These seven people had left the mother church to help start this mission church that eventually disfellowshipped them. Some of them (including my in-laws) had moved to the mother church when it was a mission of another church. (The mother church was where my wife and I were married.) So this was their second church start. It was pretty traumatic for my mother-in-law when she got up the next Sunday morning and had no place to send her offering.

Eventually they found another church. And, later, the new pastor of the church that kicked them out sent them a letter of apology. They didn't go back, but they appreciated the letter very much.

Finally, the first sermon I heard the non-supported pastor preach was titled "The Duties and Responsibilities of a Good Church Member". I summarized it as saying that good church members keep their mouths shut and do what the preacher says. He eventually threatened to resign one too many times, and the deacons called his bluff.

Churches need to teach their members and their children what it means to be a Baptist and how Baptist churches conduct their business. We're not doing enough of this today. This is true of other denominations as well. That is why we are susceptible to this kind of gradual takeover.

Tim Reynolds

 

[ROBERTGUWAPO]

Stressful it was, really. There was a point where my wife and her two Christian sisters were not in talking terms with my mother-in-law. They told her, "Dad would be turning in his grave right now at your insistence that what the church is doing is right." raying:

Yes, but would a solid, reformed, calvinistic church that is only 200 meters away, welcome a solid Baptist troublemaker? :saint:

Despite your levity, I suspect this whole event has been stressful for you and your family. I hope you all have been drawn closer to our Savior.

On the other hand, the good news is that a solid, reformed, calvinistic church is only 200 meters away.:smilewinkgrin:

peace to youraying:

 

[ROBERTGUWAPO]

Churches need to teach their members and their children what it means to be a Baptist and how Baptist churches conduct their business. We're not doing enough of this today. This is true of other denominations as well. That is why we are susceptible to this kind of gradual takeover.

Tim Reynolds

A THOUSAND AMENS TO THAT! :thumbs:

 

[Tom Butler]

Churches need to teach their members and their children what it means to be a Baptist and how Baptist churches conduct their business. We're not doing enough of this today. This is true of other denominations as well. That is why we are susceptible to this kind of gradual takeover.

Tim Reynolds

Excellent point. Guarding the doors won't solve anything if those already there have no clue about Baptist polity.

BTW Tim, I notice that some churches are now requiring new members to sign a covenant, basically agreeing to support the pastor and leadership. It's a document that could define you right out of the church for non-support if the powers that be want you out. Does it bother you that the congregations are ceding power and authority to a small group of people? Not just delegating, but giving it up.

 

[Tom Butler]

I want to make it clear that I am one who generally gives strong support to my pastor. I believe that he should get the benefit of the doubt on most issues. But that's not the same thing as the congregation ceding authority to him.

 

[donnA]

standing for the truth is always costly. believe me, i've paid for it myself.

 

[Jkdbuck76]

Not that I can think of.
Years and years ago, where I grew up at a Church of Christ, they asked one of the young men to leave since he was a gossip and was causing a lot of misery.

And a few years before THAT happened they told some lady to leave for the same reason.

Think what you want about CoC, I think they did the right thing---you CAN NOT have gossiping people in the church.

 

[pinoybaptist]

..............Yes, but would a solid, reformed, calvinistic church that is only 200 meters away, welcome a solid Baptist troublemaker? :saint:

I think they will. I knew the pastor there, not personally, but by reputation. I understood he had the respect of even non Calvinist pastors.

However, the question is will you thrive in a Calvinist church, having been exposed for years to the non-Calvinist foundations ?