Expanding government to enforce morality

[Luke2427]

The theological issue here is whether or not God would have his people utilizing government power to enforce morality.

Most Baptists, I figure, think that we should use the power of the federal government to enforce morality.

Pass laws against the use of alcohol.

Pass laws against the use of marijuana.

Pass laws against sodomy.

Pass laws against homosexual marriage.

Force everybody to live the way we want by bringing down the full force of the American government on them.

Is that Biblical?

It is surely an inconsistency among conservative evangelicals who claim to believe in shrinking the size of the government and shrinking the interference of government in our lives.

Do you believe in enforcing morality through the expansion of government power?

 

[Revmitchell]

All laws are based on morality.

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

Do you believe in enforcing morality through the expansion of government power?

If you're going to criticize the use of government to enforce such laws, you need to also demand the repeal of all laws against murder, rape, assault, robbery, burglary, theft, forgery, passing bad or no-account checks, fraud, and a host of other moral laws that came to us directly out of biblical truth. Let me know when you want to begin that effort so I can come picket your house. :laugh:

 

[Inspector Javert]

All laws are based on morality.

:thumbsup::applause:

If you're going to criticize the use of government to enforce such laws, you need to also demand the repeal of all laws against murder, rape, assault, robbery, burglary, theft, forgery, passing bad or no-account checks. fraud, and a host of other moral laws that came to us directly out of biblical truth. Let me know when you want to begin that effort so I can come picket your house.

:thumbsup::applause:

Agree with both of the above...

ALL LAW is a moral statement informing SOME expression of morality.

The tired stupid cliche' that you "can't legislate morality" is inherently false and internally illogical.

Even speed limits are inherent espressions of a moral concept....namely, that one man has no right to endager another by his excessive speed on a publically shared highway....
Or, to put it differently, it is amoral and therefore illegal to put another in Jeopardy of possible manslaughter.

As Rev and T.N.D. suggest, laws against rape, murder, theft etc... are all enforcement of moral judgements against certain actions. The only question is which particular moral judgements are the proper purview of a secular legal system.

 

[just-want-peace]

Force everybody to live the way we want by bringing down the full force of the American government on them.

In addition to all the above, this is precisely what the liberals/progressives/demoncrats are attempting to do to the USA TODAY.

 

[kyredneck]

The theological issue here is whether or not God would have his people utilizing government power to enforce morality.

Most Baptists, I figure, think that we should use the power of the federal government to enforce morality.

Pass laws against the use of alcohol.

Prohibition mandated under the Eighteenth Amendment was a dismal failure.

Pass laws against the use of marijuana.

War on drugs a dismal failure.

Pass laws against sodomy.

How long these laws were on the books? Queers can get married now. Another dismal failure.

Pass laws against homosexual marriage.

See above

Force everybody to live the way we want by bringing down the full force of the American government on them.

Just creates more outlaws and more resistance.

Is that Biblical?

I believe this is Biblical:

"Bad men cannot make good citizens. It is impossible that a nation of infidels or idolaters should be a nation of freemen. It is when a people forget God that tyrants forge their chains. A vitiated state of morals, a corrupted public conscience, is incompatible with freedom." Patrick Henry (supposedly)

More laws = more links in the chains

It is surely an inconsistency among conservative evangelicals who claim to believe in shrinking the size of the government and shrinking the interference of government in our lives.

Agree.

Do you believe in enforcing morality through the expansion of government power?

I believe in praying for revival, which I do every day.

 

[Inspector Javert]

Prohibition mandated under the Eighteenth Amendment was a dismal failure.

Attempting prohibition of a substance used by 9/10ths of the World's population throughout essentially all of it's history is not equivalent to prohibition of relatively new mind-altering substances used by a far smaller segment of the population.

That analogy is hardly equivocal or instructive.

War on drugs a dismal failure.

The "war on" speeding, car theft and murder have also been "dismal failures".

 

[kyredneck]

Attempting prohibition of a substance used by 9/10ths of the World's population throughout essentially all of it's history is not equivalent to prohibition of relatively new mind-altering substances used by a far smaller segment of the population.

That analogy is hardly equivocal or instructive.

I didn't allude to any analogy. I stated the fact, "Prohibition mandated under the Eighteenth Amendment was a dismal failure."

The "war on" speeding, car theft and murder have also been "dismal failures".

Can't argue with that logic. Keep lockin' em' up and throw away the key, non-violent and all. It's workin' like a charm (dream on).

 

[Inspector Javert]

Can't argue with that logic. Keep lockin' em' up and throw away the key, non-violent and all. It's workin' like a charm (dream on).

So, you maintain you know clearly what WILL happen if and when it is legalized? You sound as if you are sure you know what will occur if legalization happens. That is a less than humble claim at best and prudence should dictate that we don't assume we comprehend all the consequences if we adopt a Laissez-faire attitude towards drugs.

It just so happens we can look at the Netherlands by way of example.

Your snarky attitude against strict enforcement may dissuade you from comparing those stats to those of say.... Singapore....where extremely strict law enforcement is the law.

I'd encourage you to do some comparison and contrast between Singapore and their drug statistics and the status of countries like the Netherlands post legalization and before and see what you think the most effective policies would be...

As a matter of fact, I do believe that "lock 'em up and throw away the key"...is indeed quite effective, but, we DON'T do that in the U.S. not at all.
the Feds do, but the individual States absolutely DO NOT.

If you think drug traffickers are in a scenario of "lock 'em up and throw away the key" in the U.S. (except the Federal System) than you are mistaken. That is not at ALL the case.

 

[kyredneck]

latest on the war on illegal drugs

 

[Inspector Javert]

latest on the war on illegal drugs

Ask yourself this question....

Are we "winning the war" on theft?
Are we "winning the war" on murder?
Are we "winning the war" on fraud?
Are we "winning the war" on speeding?

How exactly do you define "winning the war"?
Complete eradication?
100% success?
What is the concrete standard by which we can truly measure a "victory" in the war on drugs?

Will they surrender to us aboard the U.S.S. Missouri?

Guess we've lost the "war" on crime in general.

We should legalize all heretofore illegal activities that we haven't "won the war" on then I imagine.

 

[Aaron]

The theological issue here is whether or not God would have his people utilizing government power to enforce morality.

Most Baptists, I figure, think that we should use the power of the federal government to enforce morality.

Pass laws against the use of alcohol.

Pass laws against the use of marijuana.

Pass laws against sodomy.

Pass laws against homosexual marriage.

Force everybody to live the way we want by bringing down the full force of the American government on them.

Is that Biblical?

It is surely an inconsistency among conservative evangelicals who claim to believe in shrinking the size of the government and shrinking the interference of government in our lives.

Do you believe in enforcing morality through the expansion of government power?

God would have all people using government to do justice, i.e. punishing the evildoer and praising them that do well.

 

[Luke2427]

All laws are based on morality.

Right.

But what morals do we want to force on people and what morals do we want them to be free to choose to practice or not?

For example, do we want the federal government to tell every American citizen they must not fail to attend a Baptist church on Sunday when physically able under penalty of law?

Do we want to outlaw gluttony? Are you for Bloomberg's law against 16 oz. sodas?

Do you arbitrarily choose which morals you want the government ot force on people?

 

[Luke2427]

Ask yourself this question....

Are we "winning the war" on theft?
Are we "winning the war" on murder?
Are we "winning the war" on fraud?
Are we "winning the war" on speeding?

How exactly do you define "winning the war"?
Complete eradication?
100% success?
What is the concrete standard by which we can truly measure a "victory" in the war on drugs?

Will they surrender to us aboard the U.S.S. Missouri?

Guess we've lost the "war" on crime in general.

We should legalize all heretofore illegal activities that we haven't "won the war" on then I imagine.

Theft, murder, fraud, speeding put OTHERS in danger.

Drinking in your home does not.

Smoking weed in your home does not. And I despise the idea of smoking weed. I despise the culture of it. But I am objective and intellectually honest. The fact is that we ought to want government to be involved in as little as possible of our lives.