Faith Re-Visited for the ???? time

We all know Eph 2:8 and 9 So lets spare eachother the quoting of it. Ain't any of us going to change our mind, but if you want to be correct believe like I do.

Now that we got that out of the way, here is the deal.

The following verses are found in I Cor. They are different. What I would like is a healthy decussion but it would be nice to stay as far away form endliss quotes of others.

Fine a small short one but not endless paragraps of Tom, Dick and Harrys view on the subject. You do your own work and if you must quote limit it to a one or two sintenses.

I Cor 2:5. that your faith should not be in the wisdom of men but in the power of God.

I Cor 15:14. And if Christ is not risen, then our preaching is vain and your faith is also vain. 15. Yes, and we are found false witnesses of God, because we have testified of God that He raised up Christ, whom He did not raise up if in fact the dead do not rise.
16. For if the dead do not rise, then Christ is not risen. 17. And if Christ is not risen, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins!

 

How about the Second Person Personal Pronoun "your".[/COLOR

 

Hi, Npetreley,

How about some substance pro or con, what do you think!!!!!

 

I Cor. 2:5 QUESTION - Does this passage address where faith comes form?

Yes​

How do you know? The Bible tells me so. Prove it. OK, I will do that.

Ha postis humoon is the Greek ​

translated The Faith of YOU. You who? The You of the text. OK

But​

The word You is "Of YOU" It is as stated above Second person personal pronoun Plural.

So the source of the Faith of the plural you is the ones Paul is addressing. Also, in that they are believers we can include ourselves - and that is the practical application of the correct interpretation of the text.

 

I understand your view. BUT you can not prove it. We all know Eph 2:8 and 9 and none of us are going to budge on that.

So if you will look carefully at the passages I quoted above you will notice that Paul makes some interesting statements on the believing faith they have. He attributes it to them as their faith.

If this so called "gift of faith" that does not exist in the Bible unto salvation is spoken of here in your thinking and it is a gift that God infused into a person then how is it that such a special faith can be abused in the mind of Paul as He addresses the content related to the verses at hand.

(1) you can't prove your position
(2) I have a bunch of proof my view is correct and yours is incorrect.

 

No you are wrong it is not possessive. If it were possessive it would be spelled as follows:

IDION not HUMON

Again the HUMON is exactly "Second Person Personal Pronoun Plural"


I Cor 2:5. that your faith should not be in the wisdom of men but in the power of God.

This verse is a HUGE HAMMER SLAMMER to the "unbiblical view that faith unto salvation" is a special gift given or infused into a pre-selected being whereby they are then enabled to trust in Christ.

Think about it. If this mistaken view were correct then Paul is now saying it can be used to believe in human wisdom.

But and a very big but. The very fact that "your faith" is a personal pronoun is sufficient proof to settle the issue for more than one eternity. On top of that Jesus affirms it, and Paul repeatedly affirms it.

 

Oh, I forgot, "the where it came form" is imphatic too.

You talk about impahticness - it is just that - very imphatic

How do you know? I love it when you ask.

Here it is: It is in the Genitive / Ablitive Case "of or from" Need I say more.
__________________

 

Here is the wrong interpretation of this verse, dramatized, so to speak.
I Cor 2:5. that your faith should not be in the wisdom of men but in the power of God.

OK, Now Mr. or Mrs. human being, in that I picked you in eternity past to believe and now that it is your turn to live in my creation I have given you a special gift of faith so that you will believe after I save you first.

Now that I have regenerated you and infused you with my special gift of faith:thumbs: you are to believe in Christ for the real deal “Salvation in Christ”.

Now don't get out there before you believe in Christ and believe in the wisdom of man and forget to be saved. Just be sure you mind me. It sure would make me look bad if you use this special gift to believe in the wisdom of man instead of the power of God, that’s Me by the way. Do you understand Mr. or Mrs. Human? :thumbs:

Yes? But aren’t we supposed to have free will? Don’t start that you are sounding like an Arminian and We did not sign on to that plan.

Having a little fun here: Truthfully, however, the text is the Word of God and is says what it says. The faith these people have Paul indicates that it could be used to have faith in the wisdom of man or the power of God. The source of "faith" in these verses is clearly from the "you".

 

I would agree, but the implication that it could have been is there in the statement. The "faith" spoken of that was exercised to believe in the power of God resulted because of Paul's clear message, but verse 5 suggest that it could have been in the wisdom of men.

The point is that Paul recognizes that the "faith" these people had in the power of God could have been in the wisdom of men.

I don't disagree with what you said, but I think you miss understood the point I was emphasizing.

The same "faith of you" could have been in the wisdom of men rather than the power of God" That is what it says.

Drawing from that the conclusion is that the faith that is textually and grammatically correct is from or of the "you" not from God or a special gift from God. This same faith that was or can be exercised in the power of God could have been exercised in the wisdom of men. That is what Paul is saying.

 

Why do you think I am disagreeing with what Paul said?

I am not disagreeing.

What I am saying is what it says: "5. so that your faith would not rest on the wisdom of men, but on the power of God."

You and I agree that the faith they had was in the power of God because of the previous verses outlined by Paul.

However, take that away and the first part of verse five is true.

Do we agree on that?

 

4. and my message and my preaching were not in persuasive words of wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power,
5. so that your faith would not rest on the wisdom of men, but on the power of God.

If Paul's words were not in demonstration of the Spirit and of power, their faith would be in the wisdom of men.

This was a real possibility.

If it were not a real possibility Paul would not have addressed it.

There are two real possibilities and Paul draws their attention to it.

(1) The possibility that their faith would rest on the wisdom of men exist
(2) The possibility that for it not to was based upon Paul's message which was a demonstration of the Spirit and of power.