Here is the gospel that Paul claimed to preach (or at least part of it)
quote:
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11 For there is no partiality with God.
12 For all who have sinned without the Law will also perish without the Law, and all who have sinned under the Law will be judged by the Law;
13 for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified.
14 For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves,
15 in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them,
16 on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus.
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What is the basis of justification in this statement of Paul?
WHO are the successful examples being justified in this statement?
ON what future day are they justified according to this text -- (quote please)?
In James' Gospel by what are the saints judged in the future?
Hi Bob, Let's begin from your opening statement...."Here is the gospel that Paul claimed to preach (
or at least part of it )"
"
Part of it " is correct. Scripture is what interprets Scripture and "
precept must be upon precept (Isaiah 28)" as we "
study " to "
rightly divide the word of truth (2 Tim 2:15)".
Question #1 ...."What is the basis of justification in this statement of Paul?"
This is a perfect example of how
not to "study" and "rightly divide the word of truth", "precept upon precept". You have asked a question confining a response to "
in this statement of Paul ". In doing so you do not want any other Scriptures used to interpret this passage. As you said yourself, this is "
part of the gospel " which is the exact reason that other Scriptures must be considered before determining the meaning of the passage.
You want the responder to be cornered into giving an answer which agrees with "your position" which in some way makes you feel "justified" and that is ironic indeed.
Now to answer with your rules of interpretation rather than the Bible's rules, one must answer that "doers of the law are those who will be justified according to this statement of Paul".
With your rules of interpretation I can also erroniously make Scripture show you that it is the "do gooders" that are given eternal life.... "the righteous judgment of God; who will render to every man
according to his deeds : To them who by patient continuance in
well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality,
eternal life (Ro 2:6)". We could use passage after passage to prove just about any doctrine one can dream up. All we need to do is
NOT "study" nor "rightly divide" nor consider "precept upon precept".
So let's go back to Paul's statements and study them, rightly divide them, and consider all of God's precepts upon precepts which He has given us. Let's use the "full gospel" and not just "part of it".
So the "cornered answer" would be that "those who do the law are those who will be justified".
But the true answer is found in the entire letters by Paul as we read on for the Biblical interpretation cannot be made confining oneself to a few lines of Scripture. Paul goes on to say...."
by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight ". He also states that one is "
justified freely, by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus ".
So why then does Paul state that the doers of the law will be justified? Paul goes on to explain the purpose of the law. We must consider all of the letters written for our learning and understanding. To the "foolish" Galatians who wanted to incorporate the law back into their justification by faith, Paul writes in conclusion after explaining once again that one is justified by faith apart from the law..."Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions,
till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator".
"till the seed should come" "the mediator" and praise God Jesus has come. Paul explains clearly the function of the law and he uses Scripture to support his instructions for believers.... "For as many as are of the works of the law are
under the curse : for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in
all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. But that
no man is justified by the law in the sight of God , it is evident: for The just shall live by faith.....
Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law .."(Gal 3:10-13)
He goes on...."But the scripture hath
concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe"(Gal 3:22).
As if this is not convincing enough, Paul places the final nail in the coffin of the law for the believer. "Wherefore the law
was (past tense) our school-master to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
But after faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster (3:24-25)".
Let us repeat that and emphasis it...."AFTER FAITH IS COME, WE ARE NO LONGER UNDER A SCHOOLMASTER(the Law)!!
So what about "the doers of the law will be justified"? Can they be? Problem is that N
NE can keep the entire law and even one offense makes one guilty of the entire law! God said so. Therefore even if one is guilty of one sinful thought each day, they are guilty of breaking every commandment ever given by God. This would mean that those who think they are justified by observing the Sabbath Day are just as guilty as those who do not. Sorry, "
ALL have sinned and come short of the glory of God".
It is clear that Paul was making the point that if you want to be justified by the law then you must do the entire law perfectly! He goes on to explain that this is impossible and concludes..."...we have before
proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are
all under sin(Ro 3:9)". So doers of the law would be justified before God, but problem is,
there are none ! This is where Jesus comes in and Faith in His perfectness which justifies the ungodly.
So your short answer doesn't work Bob. Those who feel they can be justified by the law, according to Paul, are cursed. Doers of the law will only be found cursed at their judgment day because All have sinned and fallen short. It is not a combination of Faith plus Doing which justifies, Paul makes that very clear. Paul thoroughly explains what he meant by "doers of the law will be justified".
Question #2 ..."WHO are the successful examples being justified in this statement?"
Same as above.
Question #3 ..."ON what future day are they justified according to this text -- (quote please)?"
Again, a disregard for God's commands to "study", "rightly divide" and "precept upon precept" when one confines oneself to a single phrase.
First of all they are not justified as has been proven through Scripture above. The "future day" is a judgment day, but which one? You can only interpret this using other scripture. There is a judgment day for the believer of "deeds while done in the body"(Ro 14:10,2 Cor 5:10). This would not be the one, for these seek to be justified by the law and have not submitted themselves to the justification which is found only in Jesus Christ.
There is the Judgment of nations on earth at the coming of Christ after the seven year Tribulation.(Matt 25:31)
There is the Great White Throne judgment at the conclusion of all things when those who have died with the law or without the law will be ressurrected and condemned to the lake of fire. Scripture would confirm that the judgment day spoken of in Romans in your post is this judgment of the unbeliever.
Question #4 ..."In James' Gospel by what are the saints judged in the future?"
Saints are judged by the "Law of Liberty". First, being called "
saints " defines us as already "justified". If one is a saint, then one is deemed perfect in the sight of God. Therefore the "saints" (the already justified through the blood of Christ) are judged through the law of liberty which has been given us through faith in Jesus Christ.
This law of Liberty flys in the face of those desiring to impose the letter of the law. The two clash and cannot coexist. This is why Paul admonished the Galatians for trying to mix the two. The law of liberty is defined by James as well as others as "
thou shalt love thy nieghbor as thyself, ye do well "(2:8). It has replaced the "letter of the law" (for the saint), which kills and was given to show us our guilt, with a law that is non condemning yet will play a role in the believers judgment at the "Judgment seat of Christ". This will not be a justifying trial concerning eternal life, that is taken care of in Christ at rebirth, it is a trial of deeds while done in the body, both good and bad. Rewards will be given or lost at this judgment.
Question #5 ..."Knowing that - what are they supposed to do according to the actual words in the text? (quote please)
"So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty".
Question #6 ..."In Romans 8 it is those who are " by the Spirit putting to death the .." What... that are the children of God?? (Quote please).
Don't see any point to the topic of "doers of the law being justified".
Question #7 ..."In Matt 7 - in Christ's gospel it is not the "HEARERS " but rather those who "WHAT" that enter heaven? (Quote please).
"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my father which is in heaven".
Don't see any point to the topic of "doers of the law being justified". Unless you want to suggest that the "will of the father" is defined in scripture as "do the law and be justified". That then would be preaching a curse.
Now if these texts are not acceptable - it is possible that you will not want to quote the actual words in your response. But if that turns out to be the case - then that "should be a sign" to you - hard to ignore. You may have "another gospel".
There is only one gospel. Study of the entire Bible precept upon precept, rightly dividing the word of truth will reveal to any seeker that justification is freely given through faith alone in Jesus Christ, apart from the law. Jesus came to defeat the law and it's curse. In fact Jesus upheld the law by delivering to it it's demands for justification. Jesus fullfilled the law for us that we may be justified freely
through His work alone and not our own. For one to think that he or she is doing ANYTHING to aid in their own justification is in all reality spitting on the blood of Jesus Christ. It is stating that "yea, Jesus done some good for me but I must do for myself as well, just to show God that I am worthy of His acceptance". Sorry folks, but
by you working at keeping the law, you are working against the blood of Jesus Christ . Just let it go and let Jesus be your Savior! Then you can do good works as you bring others into the saving knowledge of Jesus Christ. Otherwise, your works will not survive the refiners fire and you will be left ashame that you did not "
study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth ".
God Bless!
That's a good question. I thought this was the place at the Baptist Board where people could discuss differing beliefs.
