Interesting article from the Washington Post. Feedback?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A17223-2002Sep28.html
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A17223-2002Sep28.html
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Falwell and some gays
- Thread starter swaimj
- Start date
I saw this on CNN a few weeks back. Usually I don't like Farwell, his comments make me shake my head most of the time, but this time I think he's nearly dead on. Let them go to the church, but keep preaching that Homosexuality is wrong, don't let them become members but show them the love of Christ. Are they going a bit to far in welcoming these people? Perhaps but it's a lot better the nwhat I expected to hear when I first heard about this.
Bryan
Bryan
I agree completely. I don't like much of what Falwell has done but he has always seemed to me to be someone who is much more balanced in the "real world" than in his television appearances and the public persona that he created. I have never met the man but I know people who know him and they have confirmed this opinion several times.
Whatever you think of Jerry Falwell, he seems to be "real" -- not like Benny Hinn or Robert Tilton.
In my opinion, they are probably doing exactly the right thing by greeting them with exceptional love and grace. A college friend of mine used to be a Jehovah's Witness, but when his little girl was very sick and at death's door, the local Baptist church ministered to the family with food, love and support. The sheer love, grace and generosity of the local First Baptist Church drew him and his wife out of the cult and into Christian faith. He is now a Baptist pastor.
Homosexuals need to know that the people of God love them even though fulfilling their homosexual desires is not acceptable for a believer of Christ.
Jerry Falwell and his church did the exact thing that all churches should be doing. They went out and found a group of people (sinners) who needed to hear the truth of the Gospel and brought them into the church to hear it.
I have met Dr. Falwell and like someone else said above he is "real." He preached a Chapel service here at Southeastern last spring. I did not care for his topical sermon (I would rather have heard an expositional sermon), but he was very warm and friendly. Maybe that was because I told him that I am a Virginian from his neck of the woods?!?
I have met Dr. Falwell and like someone else said above he is "real." He preached a Chapel service here at Southeastern last spring. I did not care for his topical sermon (I would rather have heard an expositional sermon), but he was very warm and friendly. Maybe that was because I told him that I am a Virginian from his neck of the woods?!?
I find it strange that millions have been touch by God through the written words of a Closet Gay Christian. Then when the Gay Christian stops living the lie, he is told he will go to hell unless he changes back to the liar he use to be. Sad, very sad.
[ September 29, 2002, 10:32 AM: Message edited by: post-it ]
[ September 29, 2002, 10:32 AM: Message edited by: post-it ]
Indeed a very interesting article.
One quote really struck me while reading the article. One of the men said, "Maybe something will finally click in their heads," said Nixon, 52, "and they'll say, 'Pastor, you're wrong. I've watched these two guys, and they're just like us.' " The first thing that popped into my head was 1 Samuel 16:7, which states in part, for God {sees} not as man sees, for man looks at the outward appearance, but the LORD looks at the heart." (NASB)
The sexual preditor down the street may "look" just like us, but that doesn't make it anymore right than homosexuality.
Just my thoughts on the matter.
God Bless!!!
Adam
One quote really struck me while reading the article. One of the men said, "Maybe something will finally click in their heads," said Nixon, 52, "and they'll say, 'Pastor, you're wrong. I've watched these two guys, and they're just like us.' " The first thing that popped into my head was 1 Samuel 16:7, which states in part, for God {sees} not as man sees, for man looks at the outward appearance, but the LORD looks at the heart." (NASB)
The sexual preditor down the street may "look" just like us, but that doesn't make it anymore right than homosexuality.
Just my thoughts on the matter.
God Bless!!!
Adam
Niether do those God hating, heathen Gossips. I wouldn't trust my son in the company of a Gossip or a liar. Such sin...Originally posted by HeDied4U:
The sexual preditor down the street may "look" just like us, but that doesn't make it anymore right than homosexuality.
Just my thoughts on the matter.
God Bless!!!
Adam
Why so cynical?
Can't people you may not agree with be doing the right thing for the right reasons?
Something that helps me in this regard... I make the assumption that someone else is working out of pure motives until I am given a compelling reason not to believe them. I hope others extend the same sort of assumption toward me.
Not trying to reprimand you because I have a natural tendency toward cynicism myself. I have to fight against it all the time.
"Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God."
- 1 Corinthians 6:9-10
Post-it, did you read all of the article? Falwell points out (accurately) that White is currently living a lie because he left his wife, to whom he had vowed fidelity "'til death do us part". I guess in your view if a person is gay, breaking vows is OK.</font>[/QUOTE]Good point swaimj, this is another problem that the Church creates when we presure gay people to get married or tell them they aren't born that way, that it is a choice. They then "think" it is a choice and go out and get married and skrew up a woman's life, her family's life, his family's life, and any children they may have, after reality hits home that it is unnatural for homosexuals to marry heterosexuals and a divorce occurs.
This is a perfect example of the problem that can cause.
Thanks swamij for pointing it out. However, we don't even know if his wife would want a Gay Guy back in the marriage. According to scripture, due to his adultry, it is her choice whether to take him back or not, not Jerry's choice, nor his choice.
Would you take back a Butchy dike exwife you know had been having an affair with some woman? A exwife you know you could never satisfy? I don't think that even Jerry himself would welcome that situation back into his life.
[ September 30, 2002, 01:27 PM: Message edited by: post-it ]
I don't think one's gender orintation would be at issue. My hetersexual wife cheated on me with a hetersexual male.... twice. She's considered coming back to me on several occaisions since, but there's that old saying about a leopard changing its spots. The first time, I told her "your sins are forgiven, go and sin no more". The second time, I told her "You reap what you sow. Get out."
Post-it, did you read all of the article? Falwell points out (accurately) that White is currently living a lie because he left his wife, to whom he had vowed fidelity "'til death do us part". I guess in your view if a person is gay, breaking vows is OK.</font>[/QUOTE]Good point swaimj, this is another problem that the Church creates when we presure gay people to get married or tell them they aren't born that way, that it is a choice. They then "think" it is a choice and go out and get married and skrew up a woman's life, her family's life, his family's life, and any children they may have, after reality hits home that it is unnatural for homosexuals to marry heterosexuals and a divorce occurs.
This is a perfect example of the problem that can cause.
Thanks swamij for pointing it out. However, we don't even know if his wife would want a Gay Guy back in the marriage. According to scripture, due to his adultry, it is her choice whether to take him back or not, not Jerry's choice, nor his choice.
Would you take back a Butchy dike exwife you know had been having an affair with some woman? A exwife you know you could never satisfy? I don't think that even Jerry himself would welcome that situation back into his life.</font>[/QUOTE]Hello Post-it,
Sorry, but you are flat wrong about how coming out of a homosexual lifestyle "always" turns out. I have a very good friend who used to be a practicing homosexual. However, when he got saved and the power of the Holy Spirit filled him he was able to see the previous lifestyle as nothing more than the sin of his own choosing. He is now happily married and the father of a fine young son. He went to seminary an is now a licensed minister. He serves as a deacon in my church and travels around (with his wife she is a Christian Singer) preaching against the lie of the homosexual "born that way" lifestyle. His testamony is powerful.
The problem I see with your response above is that you attribute the "changed" life to the efforts of the individual rather than it being the work of the Holy Spirit. Of course a man or woman who is bound by sin cannot simply decide to change their lifestyle and experience success apart from the saving grace of God and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Now, can such a saved/Holy Spirit changed person slip back into sinful habits? Yes, but in order to do so they have to willingly choose to reject the guidance of the Holy Spirit and turn themselves back over to the sin.
[ September 30, 2002, 03:19 PM: Message edited by: BibleboyII ]
Interesting strategy for arguing your case, Post-it. First you start off by saying
Then you say
Did the church make Mr. White marry a woman or did he choose that path of his own accord? Did the church force him to stand in front of his family and friends and make vows to his wife? I don't buy it.
Then you say
and you procede to come up with a scenario in which performing a morally upright act (reconciling with a person who had been unfaithful) might be difficult. Righteous living is rarely easy Post-it, but when we commit to righteous living God can empower us to amazing acts of self-sacrificing kindness that defy human reasoning. And after all Post-it, isn't that ultimately what love is all about?
I'm with you brother! I'm a work in progress too!Originally posted by Bugman:
Yes I am a bit cynical and should work on that
I've worked on it for a few years and I have found some freedom from the negativity and depression that used to plague me when dealing with other people.
I used Mr. White symbolically to represent the majority of homosexuals who followed the "pressure" of the church to "choose" to be heterosexual and thus marry. Are you saying the church doesn't do that?
Maybe I did not make myself clear. And I understand your answer and it would be correct under some circumstances. But what I meant to say is...
would you take back a spouse that said she felt she was homosexual and would always be homosexual. That she could be married to you but nothing sexual would be occurring in the marriage due to her orientation. Whether you accept her words as fact or not. Would you maintain a marriage with her if your kids were already grown and on their own?
I believe you can love that woman, the mother of your children, but you would do both of you an injustice to stay together for a past promise when neither of you want to keep that promise (marriage vow). I further think scripture would support that view given the adultery she already committed. Now along comes Jerry Falwell and he says you should remarry because of the vow you both took years before. Don't you think he has stuck his nose in the wrong pie?
[ October 01, 2002, 02:18 AM: Message edited by: post-it ]