Protestant
Well-Known Member
I recently stumbled on a thread entitled, ‘Faulty Logic, Faulty Theology.’ Martin’s thesis was simple and direct: Had Adam NOT eaten from the forbidden tree, Adam would NOT have died. From Martin’s POV the inference is both logical and obvious. Yet Martin acknowledges there are some sincere, educated Christians who believe this to be a logical fallacy.
Jon C. believes it to be a logical fallacy. “The logical fallacy associated with this is with those who think that God's words that should Adam eat of the fruit he would die leads to the conclusion that if Adam did not eat of the fruit he would have lived forever.” He goes on to say, “We do not know what would have occurred had Adam not eaten of the fruit.”
By no strange ‘coincidence,’ while researching theological material for debates in which I have been engaged with a zealous, seasoned JW, I came across this 12th Question in volume 1 of Francis Turretin’s Institute of Elenctic Theology:
“Did the first man before his fall possess immortality, or was he mortal in nature and condition? The former we [Reformed Protestants] affirm; the latter we deny against the Socinians [whose spiritual descendants are the modern-day heretics called Unitarians].”
Although the arguments put forth by the Socinians differ in substance from that of orthodox Christians who believe the logical fallacy of Martin’s argument, Turretin’s response is equally applicable to the question posed by the Baptists: Had Adam NOT eaten from the forbidden tree, would Adam live forever?
Turretin’s answer: “The orthodox [Reformers] think he would never have died if he had persevered in his integrity because the holiness of the soul would have preserved his body from death and corruption.”
Turretin argues, “If Adam was righteous, he ought to have been immortal because there is a necessary connection between righteousness and life. (a) From the order of God who has joined righteousness and life in the law by an indissoluble bond, as he also did by joining together sin and death, ‘Do this and thou shalt live; the soul that sinneth it shall die.’
Turretin continues, “Because Adam, by his sin, contracted the death threatened as the punishment of sin (Gen. 2:17; 3:19). Hence death is said to have entered by sin as its wages (Romans 5:12; 6:23). He would have been free from this if he had not sinned (which could not be said if death was a result of nature). Nor does it help the Socinians to object [that there is a difference as whether the death threatened pertains to eternal death or temporal death]. We must not limit what the Holy Spirit does not limit. The Scriptures speak in general about death. Thus, under it is comprehended whatever comes under the name of death in the Scriptures (and so bodily, no less than eternal death must be understood).”
Turretin adds, “Although the body of Adam was in origin earthy…yet it could have been immortal through the dignity of original righteousness and the power of God’s special grace.” [These quotes form the substance of Turretin’s arguments which answer to Martin’s thesis.]
Conclusion: According to the Protestant Reformers, of whom Francis Turretin was among the preeminent, Martin’s logical conclusion was spot on. I concur.
PS Please pray the Lord open the eyes and heart of the JW and his family.
Jon C. believes it to be a logical fallacy. “The logical fallacy associated with this is with those who think that God's words that should Adam eat of the fruit he would die leads to the conclusion that if Adam did not eat of the fruit he would have lived forever.” He goes on to say, “We do not know what would have occurred had Adam not eaten of the fruit.”
By no strange ‘coincidence,’ while researching theological material for debates in which I have been engaged with a zealous, seasoned JW, I came across this 12th Question in volume 1 of Francis Turretin’s Institute of Elenctic Theology:
“Did the first man before his fall possess immortality, or was he mortal in nature and condition? The former we [Reformed Protestants] affirm; the latter we deny against the Socinians [whose spiritual descendants are the modern-day heretics called Unitarians].”
Although the arguments put forth by the Socinians differ in substance from that of orthodox Christians who believe the logical fallacy of Martin’s argument, Turretin’s response is equally applicable to the question posed by the Baptists: Had Adam NOT eaten from the forbidden tree, would Adam live forever?
Turretin’s answer: “The orthodox [Reformers] think he would never have died if he had persevered in his integrity because the holiness of the soul would have preserved his body from death and corruption.”
Turretin argues, “If Adam was righteous, he ought to have been immortal because there is a necessary connection between righteousness and life. (a) From the order of God who has joined righteousness and life in the law by an indissoluble bond, as he also did by joining together sin and death, ‘Do this and thou shalt live; the soul that sinneth it shall die.’
Turretin continues, “Because Adam, by his sin, contracted the death threatened as the punishment of sin (Gen. 2:17; 3:19). Hence death is said to have entered by sin as its wages (Romans 5:12; 6:23). He would have been free from this if he had not sinned (which could not be said if death was a result of nature). Nor does it help the Socinians to object [that there is a difference as whether the death threatened pertains to eternal death or temporal death]. We must not limit what the Holy Spirit does not limit. The Scriptures speak in general about death. Thus, under it is comprehended whatever comes under the name of death in the Scriptures (and so bodily, no less than eternal death must be understood).”
Turretin adds, “Although the body of Adam was in origin earthy…yet it could have been immortal through the dignity of original righteousness and the power of God’s special grace.” [These quotes form the substance of Turretin’s arguments which answer to Martin’s thesis.]
Conclusion: According to the Protestant Reformers, of whom Francis Turretin was among the preeminent, Martin’s logical conclusion was spot on. I concur.
PS Please pray the Lord open the eyes and heart of the JW and his family.