Feeding 5,000 (more or less)...

I believe there could have been numbers in the five figures. I agree that 'only' 5000 is still a grand miracle, but people (and pastors) want to get their facts and figures correct, so if it states 5000 besides women and children, we tend to want to 'guess-timate' roughly how many people could have been present.

 

'besides women and children.'

Since a pastor teaches the Word and the phrase is in the Word it ought to be dealt with as best the pastor can. The Holy Spirit included it for a purpose I would think.

If it had been me fishing a croud of three would have been a miracle.:laugh:

 

Rubato, I got great, wonderful news for you --- the miracle is a SIGN, John 20:30-31! FIVE is a church number -- in this case, a sign of the church that was "left behind" (Mt 25:1-13). What are the loaves and fishes? Five BARLEY loaves are Gentile churches who disbelieved until the rapture. Then, like the 5 foolish virgins (and Laodicea, Rev 3:18), they "went and bought" -- they BELIEVED too late! Witnesses! But the 2 fishes? The 2 witnesses, Moses and Elijah of Rev 11! Loaves and fishes "broken" --- MARTYRED!! 12 baskets left? Still 12 tribes will of Israel survive. We KNOW this -- at LEAST the 144,000 of the 12 tribes survive!!

skypair

 

I'm almost too afraid to ask, but what do you think the miracle of Christ feeding the 4,000, besides women and children, signify (Mat 15:32-38)?

 

I was going t ask that! You beat me to it!

 

Ha-ha! It is John, "The Revelator," that gave the sign miracles as he said in John 20:30. The miracle in Matthew falls under the heading of "And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen." John 21:25

Yet if you want an interpretation by extension, I would say that the 7 loaves are the 7 churches and the "few lilttle fishes" might point to the disciples. Four is the number of completion and 1000's seems to symbolize "multitudes" so I would guess that the church is complete and past (7 baskets here being also "broken") before the leaven of the Pharisees (of which Jesus said "beware," Mt 16) in the tribulation comes.

However, the order of these 2 events (5000, then 4000) in Matthew seems to be reversed and, unless Jesus was here looking backward (that there was the leaven, then the church, then the trib 5000), I am not as eager to interpret Matthew in the same way I do John where we are told the miracles are signs.

skypair

 

Shows what a sexist society existed during bible times. I know someone disagreed with me when I explained the woman's position in bible times but the middle eastern cultrue in general doesn't give much value to the best thing God gave Man.

 

This is just silly.

The Archangel

 

Uh huh.... yeah.... sure...

Proof please.

 

I guess I should say (as so many here do), "I don't like your tone, tt."

So, since I doubt you are doing anything but taunting, I'll be brief. Five foolish virgins? Five churches with MK rather than heavenly kingdom/NJ promises in Rev 2-3? From whence come the 5th seal martyrs to heaven?

skypair

 

Careful, ME has been a banned heresy here... this smacks of their teaching..

 

Don't you know that all scripture relates to revelations?
They are all some kind of post-, mid- or pre-trib.
Jesus wouldn't just feed people because they are hungry :jesus:

Sorry skypair, just having a little fun.
I do think we sometimes try to put too much into some things.

 

????????? :saint: Don't you know better me better than that?

skypair

 

Could you explain (with scripture references of course) how you can be so sure that five is "a sign of the church that was left behind", that the two fish represent Moses and Elijah, that the twelve baskets of fragments represent the twelve tribes of Israel? Thank you.

 

I like to think I do..:laugh:

Can you explain David's answer...

I just don't relate everything in the Bible to prophecy...

 

I've seen you go out on a limb before Sky, but honestly...where are you getting this stuff from??

There isn't anything I see in the passages you listed nor the brief discription you give, that connect them biblically to one another. I haven't even heard any hyper-disy teaching stating the above.. maybe I'm due for a review

For me, I just don't see the logic, or biblical proof to your accertion in the above. And in all fairness (though it isn't a commonly held Dispy view) the problem might lie in your needing to elaborate quite a bit more. So if you would please......

 

You're right because it 1) it fits in with 6 other "sign miracles" and 2) is connected to a very close examination of Rev 2-3 -- which I can't do now cause I'm going to play golf. :thumbs:

skypair

 

First, from the 5 foolsih virgins in Mt 25:1-13. I believe that the event posed there is the rapture -- that 5 virgins had no oil/Holy Spirit and were not taken to the wedding in heaven -- that they toiled on earth to "go and buy" (referring directly to Laodicea, Rev 3:18) -- but there is not more rapture/access to the wedding -- they are told to "watch for the Son of man," an OT term for the coming of Messiah at the end of the trib.

Five are the churches left behind in Rev 2-3 which is quite easily shown by Smyrna and Philadelphia being the only churches with the possibility of receiving CROWNS. As we all atest, crowns are received only be the church only at the Bema post-rapture 1Thes 2:19. The crown that Phillies might lose is the "crown of righteousness" for those who "love [Christ's] appearing" -- the rapture. Some will lose their crown due to false eschatology or backsliding, I believe.

There's actually 2 things in the passage that point me to this. 1) The loaves are "barley loaves." Barley (vs. wheat) was the common grain representing the Gentiles (see also Rev 6:6 for another application). 2) Fish represented Israel and 2, of course, the 2 witnesses that should come, Rev 11. Similarly, the woman is not mixing leaven into "wheat" in Mt 13:33 but into "meal," barley and wheat combined.

This is to designate that they are recovered (bread and fish) from an OT dispensation/gospel, the tribulation, as part of Israel.

I know -- tell me I have a vivid imagination and chaulk it up to boredom if you want. :laugh: No, there's more and it fits well biblically.

skypair