Fighting America's godless Agenda

[Herald]

How are Christians supposed to respond to the godless agenda we are now facing? This blog article was written in response to a recent article by the Rev. Al Mohler and deals with that very topic:

Fighting America's godless Agenda

Al Mohler wrote a penetrating article on the radical homosexual agenda and its attack on the Church. The radical homosexual agenda has been built on incrementalism. It is willing to accept small concessions over time in order to finally triumph. It is not enough that it achieves acceptance in society through legislation and the courts, it seeks to destroy the moral fabric of society. Indeed, it seeks to marginalize and penalize anyone who stands against it, and that includes evangelical Christians. The story of Jonathan and Elaine Huguenin (c.f. Mohler’s article) is case in point.

Christians need to wake up and realize that this is not just a battle being waged against business owners. This is an ideological battle targeting Christians. We will lose the battle if we respond as individuals.

We must respond with one unified voice as Christ’s Church. This is not a call to diminish our doctrinal differences. There are good reasons why there are Baptists, Presbyterians, and Methodists. But there comes a time when the threat to the Church is greater than our doctrinal distinctives. What the Church is facing in this early part of the 21st Century threatens our very freedom to exercise our faith. It is the beginning of state sponsored persecution of Christianity.

So, what should the Church do about it? For the sake of discussion I have a few ideas.

1. Hold a conference that includes all evangelical denominations to discuss a unified response against the radical homosexual agenda. This would not be a conference to debate the doctrines that divide us but the threat that seeks to destroy us.

2. Publish a declaration affirming the intention of Christian churches, as well as individual Christians, to practice their faith in all aspects of their lives, both privately and in business.

3. Take the offensive in this battle instead of being passive. We need to support individual Christians, Christian run businesses, and churches that are being persecuted for their faith. If one Christian is threatened with fines or imprisonment, fine or imprison us all. If we stand alone we will surely fall. If we stand together there are no guarantees, but we will be seen as responding in one unified voice against the evil that seeks to destroy us.

4. Pastors must preach on this from the pulpit. This is not a time to shrink in cowardice but to take a stand and be courageous. Let our enemies know where to find us.

Dr. Mohler is more diplomatic and eloquent than I am. I thank God for his faithful voice on issues vital to the Church. I hope he would agree that now is not the time for the Church to just sit back and not respond. We must take up the fight and do so in the power of God.

 

[JonC]

The positive side is that America is becoming an environment where the church cannot simply exist anonymously, exhibiting a benign attitude, and assuming that our culture is essentially value neutral.

 

[JonC]

For the sake of discussion, I am divided about this issue. I would say that the churches should be less passive, but I don’t think that that’s a biblical response. The early church was living in a pagan environment, but it did not “attack” the paganism of that culture. Instead of “judging” the world, it judged the Church. To the world, the Church proclaimed the Gospel and stood as a light, a body sanctified and holy to God. At the same time, it addressed ungodliness that threatened to creep into its walls and strengthened its members not only to evangelize but to endure.

So I would choose #4. Pastors must preach on this from the pulpit – addressing the congregation rather than the world. I’d add that they must equip members to witness to the lost and to stand. Church services need to focus more on discipleship and less on evangelism, but the Church itself needs to focus on evangelism and the community of believers.

 

[Revmitchell]

As individuals we should be part of our communities and speak out just as anyone else would. We should be part of our government and be representatives and vote our conscience just as anyone else would.

We do not need to hide in a cave or silence our voices. There is nothing biblical about that.

 

[Herald]

For the sake of discussion, I am divided about this issue. I would say that the churches should be less passive, but I don’t think that that’s a biblical response. The early church was living in a pagan environment, but it did not “attack” the paganism of that culture. Instead of “judging” the world, it judged the Church. To the world, the Church proclaimed the Gospel and stood as a light, a body sanctified and holy to God. At the same time, it addressed ungodliness that threatened to creep into its walls and strengthened its members not only to evangelize but to endure.

So I would choose #4. Pastors must preach on this from the pulpit – addressing the congregation rather than the world. I’d add that they must equip members to witness to the lost and to stand. Church services need to focus more on discipleship and less on evangelism, but the Church itself needs to focus on evangelism and the community of believers.

For the record, I agree with your bolded comments. What I do not see in scripture is a command to be disengaged in society. I am not suggesting that we attack the homosexual agenda directly. I am suggesting that the Church stand up for what is right and to be united in that endeavor.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

How are Christians supposed to respond to the godless agenda we are now facing? This blog article was written in response to a recent article by the Rev. Al Mohler and deals with that very topic:

Fighting America's godless Agenda

In the North East, he must be crazy!

 

[JonC]

For the record, I agree with your bolded comments. What I do not see in scripture is a command to be disengaged in society. I am not suggesting that we attack the homosexual agenda directly. I am suggesting that the Church stand up for what is right and to be united in that endeavor.

Thanks for your remarks. I agree and see what you mean about my comments. I didn’t mean that individual Christians do not engage society (alone or collectively as a local congregation). I actually would place that in the realm of evangelism. As a Christian I am responsible to exercise my voice in the nation and to take a stand for godly values. I’m not an Anabaptist

The Church cannot hide in a cave or remain silent and remain a light in the darkness. But I do believe we do this by sharing the Gospel to the lost rather than simply addressing “lost morals.” It is no good to stifle the homosexual agenda and moralize a lost society if they remain without Christ. Not that we should “ignore” it, but we should address it within the context of the Gospel and not expect the world to behave other than worldly. A bigger problem, IMHO, is worldliness within the Church.

 

[go2church]

I find the word persecuted in Mohler's article to be a bit strong, in relation to what other Christians are experiencing right now, but I understand the sentiment.

Feel similar to JonC. More interested in shining a brighter, different light then in fighting a human agenda which like all human agendas is tainted by sin. If given an opportunity to have a voice, then it seems reasonable to use it, though I too don't want more "moral acting" lost people.

Interesting discussion, how much involvement is too much?

 

[Herald]

I do not think Christians should be on some sort of moral crusade in order to Christianize society. The changing of society is only possible through the transforming power of the Gospel. I am more concerned with how the state will begin to marginalize the Church. Perhaps this is not the same degree of persecution as believers in China have been experiencing for decades, but it is a form of persecution. Is it wrong to come to the aide of our brothers and sisters in Christ in our own country if they are suffering persecution? I am just asking.

 

[JonC]

I certainly think that we should. That is a part of being a Church. Sometimes I wonder if we wouldn't be better off with a little more "persecution" and a little less comfort.

 

[agedman]

Dr. Bob Jones Sr. spoke more than once that the most important light in a house was not the great chandelier dangling from the ceiling, but the little night light that keeps one from stumbling in the dark and bending their toes on the bedposts of life.

The bedpost part I added.

The darker the world becomes, the more the true believer will shine.

Folks, the believer is not fighting against flesh and blood. That just isn't were the fight takes place.

The true believer has no business attempting to align them self with those who hold hands with modernists and deniers of the faith to achieve some social good. This is not the time/place of the believer's kingdom.

 

[DHK]

I certainly think that we should. That is a part of being a Church. Sometimes I wonder if we wouldn't be better off with a little more "persecution" and a little less comfort.

If you read through the book of First Corinthians you will find that Paul "attacks" the enemy from all sides, especially the enemy of idolatry. And he does so with very strong language.

1 Corinthians 10:21 Ye cannot drink the cup of the Lord, and the cup of devils: ye cannot be partakers of the Lord's table, and of the table of devils.

1 Corinthians 10:14 Wherefore, my dearly beloved, flee from idolatry.

Concerning immorality:
1 Corinthians 5:5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

Against false teachers:
2 Corinthians 3:1 Do we begin again to commend ourselves? or need we, as some others, epistles of commendation to you, or letters of commendation from you?
2 Ye are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read of all men:

2 Corinthians 11:13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

And the well known passage in Galatians:
Galatians 1:6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

 

[JonC]

If you read through the book of First Corinthians you will find that Paul "attacks" the enemy from all sides, especially the enemy of idolatry. And he does so with very strong language.

1 Corinthians 10:21 Ye cannot drink the cup of the Lord, and the cup of devils: ye cannot be partakers of the Lord's table, and of the table of devils.

1 Corinthians 10:14 Wherefore, my dearly beloved, flee from idolatry.

Concerning immorality:
1 Corinthians 5:5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

Against false teachers:
2 Corinthians 3:1 Do we begin again to commend ourselves? or need we, as some others, epistles of commendation to you, or letters of commendation from you?
2 Ye are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read of all men:

2 Corinthians 11:13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

And the well known passage in Galatians:
Galatians 1:6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

I agree. While I don't think that this can be attached to the Church attacking the values in society (Paul was addressing the church, not the world), I certainly think that we should stand for godly values.

 

[Herald]

The true believer has no business attempting to align them self with those who hold hands with modernists and deniers of the faith to achieve some social good. This is not the time/place of the believer's kingdom.

I hope the topic I brought up for discussion is not seen as an attempt to do this.

We should not be joining hands with "modernists and deniers of the faith" in a broad ecumenical attempt to stem the tide of godlessness. The whole point of the OP was to discuss Christians supporting Christians who are being persecuted for their faith. Let me use a fictitious scenario to make my point.

The Jones' own a bakery. They are approached by a homosexual couple about making a wedding cake for their upcoming wedding reception. The Jones' decline citing their Christian faith. The homosexual couple files a discrimination lawsuit. Additional the state they are in files charges. The Jones' lose their lawsuit and are heavily fined by the state. As a result they lose their business. Outside of the support of their local church they went through this persecution alone.

What if Christians banded together to support the Jones'? Their legal fees are covered or legal services provided by Christian attorneys. Churches join together to protest and petition. Keep in mind that even the Apostle Paul invoked his Roman citizenship in order to appeal to Caesar. How is it unbiblical for Christians to utilize the laws of the state for the sake of righteousness?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

The prophet Micah provides us with the solution:

Micah 6:8

King James Version (KJV)

8 He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the Lord require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?:thumbs:

 

[timjarrb]

We need conviction and instruction in our messages to the church . All this how to be the best , have the best , and live the best now is gonna have to stop. Most churches don't even think Homosexuality is sin anymore . The pastor want preach against it because he wants to be there celebrity . I have seen more than one Baptist pastor use the phrase " divorce is wrong but we want say nothing against it " and take the conviction out of it like taking air out of a tire. Yes divorce is wrong but God gave instructions for the bill to divorce because of hardness of mans heart . I never seen a paper where God gave perdition to commit homosexuality . By mentioning divorce you take away from the fact that homosexuality is wrong.

 

[timjarrb]

permission

 

[timjarrb]

we need to love Homosexuals in hope they come to repentance but we need to church any member that has such actions.

 

[saturneptune]

I hope the topic I brought up for discussion is not seen as an attempt to do this.

We should not be joining hands with "modernists and deniers of the faith" in a broad ecumenical attempt to stem the tide of godlessness. The whole point of the OP was to discuss Christians supporting Christians who are being persecuted for their faith. Let me use a fictitious scenario to make my point.

The Jones' own a bakery. They are approached by a homosexual couple about making a wedding cake for their upcoming wedding reception. The Jones' decline citing their Christian faith. The homosexual couple files a discrimination lawsuit. Additional the state they are in files charges. The Jones' lose their lawsuit and are heavily fined by the state. As a result they lose their business. Outside of the support of their local church they went through this persecution alone.

What if Christians banded together to support the Jones'? Their legal fees are covered or legal services provided by Christian attorneys. Churches join together to protest and petition. Keep in mind that even the Apostle Paul invoked his Roman citizenship in order to appeal to Caesar. How is it unbiblical for Christians to utilize the laws of the state for the sake of righteousness?

What I do not understand about the incident is, if I own a private business that makes cakes, I can choose who I make a cake for and who I do not. I do not have to give a reason. If there is a law in one of those liberal states that allows a civil suit based on discrimination against same sex couples, then they have to prove that is why I chose not to make the cake. Maybe it was because I was all out of two male cake toppers.

 

[Yeshua1]

How are Christians supposed to respond to the godless agenda we are now facing? This blog article was written in response to a recent article by the Rev. Al Mohler and deals with that very topic:

Fighting America's godless Agenda

Most important thing is to have us as Christians stay strong in prayer, walking in the Will of the Lord for pure lives, and THEN do what we are able to do under US laws,, petition, go to court, get into politics, culture, arts etc...

really, watered down and false 'Christianity" has been allowed to influence all those things, we now need to Spirit filled and right living saints coming to the party!