For Hyper-Calvinists only

[The Biblicist]

The Hyper Calvinist is a person whose doctrine is more formed by logic than by Bible.

For example, they believe that the blood of Christ is in and of itself sufficent to save. They are ignorant that the blood of Christ is worthless without the covenant work by the Father who DETERMINES its design. Without the Father's determination the blood of Christ does not apply to anything or anyone and is not "atonement" for anything or anyone. Hence, the blood of Christ is worthless apart from the Father's design for it.

Likewise, the blood of Christ is equally worthless without the Holy Spirit's covenant work. The Holy Spirit's work is involved in the Father's design for the blood of Christ. Christ furnished the redemptive price but the Holy Spirit actually takes possession and removes them from the actual consequences of sin. Without the work of the Holy Spirit the Father's design and the redemptive price are worthless as nothing is actually possessed or saved from sins actual consequences.

As a consequence, the hyper calvinist confuses the redemptive design or eternal purpose of God with the actual fulfillment of that purpose - "I have purposed it; I WILL do it" (Isa. 46:11). They cannot distinguish between purpose and actual fulfillment in time and space. Even though God cannot be restricted to time and space the fulfillment of his purposes can be.

They want to make salvation already actual and real before it is fulfilled in time and space. Hence, they teach that the elect are already justified, regenerated, as well as, glorified before the world began and simply come to realize it in time and space. Hence, the gospel is not the power of God UNTO SALVATION or that election is "TO salvation" but rather it is only the REVELATION of having already been saved.

However, the mind of God is not made of MATTER but is SPIRITUAL. God purposed the whole creation of the physical world before He created it. But it did not already actually and really exist in the mind of God because creation is made of MATTER, TIME and SPACE and God's mind is SPIRITUAL.

This kind of mental gymnastics is equally forced to admit that the NON-ELECT also actually and literally existed ETERNALLY, as much as, the ELECT, as much as, CREATION because ALL were EQUALLY contained within the mind of God and if all these things (creation) actualy and literally existed ETERNALLY in God's Mind (His creation) then the logical doctrinal consequence is PANTHESISM as His creation is as eternal as God and inseparable as they are contained WITHIN HIM.

This kind of confusion is the same logical line of thinking that claims that the elect were already justified in eternity past literally and realistically. This kind of thinking is the same logical line of thinking that claims that the elect were already justified by the blood of Christ and came into the world uncondemned.

However, the truth is spelled out in the order given in 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14

"13 ¶ But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, (1) because God hath from the beginning chosen you (2) to salvation (3) through sanctification of the Spirit (4) and belief of the truth:

1. Chosen from the beginning
2. to salvation
3. Through sanctification of the Spirit
4. And beleif of the truth

In other words what God has purposed before the world began is fulfilled only in time and space even though God is not confined to time and space.

In other words, "I have purposed it; I WILL DO it"

 

[billwald]

First, Romans 1 teaches that the existence of God can be inferred from observing the universe. When I observe the universe, it seems a-moral, balanced between stability and chaos.

Second, every theology puts a spin on the text. As someone said, "Every problem has an easy solution and it is usually wrong."

Third, the primary purpose of being on BB seems to be "proving" your political party and your theology is correct and everyone else is wrong and/or going to Hell. I've been reading this sort of reflector list for twenty years and have not read a new idea for the last ten or fifteen.

Yes, I have to much time to kill. What is your excuse??????????

 

[The Biblicist]

First, Romans 1 teaches that the existence of God can be inferred from observing the universe. When I observe the universe, it seems a-moral, balanced between stability and chaos.

Could that be because sin and its influence has affected the universe and that is why the wrath of God exists (Rom. 1:18)?

Second, every theology puts a spin on the text. As someone said, "Every problem has an easy solution and it is usually wrong."

Outside of the power and revelation of righteousness found in the gospel in Romans 1:1-17 can you find anywhere in Romans 1:18-32 where saving power and revelation exists in the universe?

Sure, creation reveals there is a God and the power of God and something about the nature of God outside and within you but that does not save anyone and it does not reveal the righteousness needed to save them. There is sufficient witness to condemn but is there to save?

Can you find any hint that anyone observing the witness of the universe (vv. 19-21) turned from sin to God in verses 22-32?

Third, the primary purpose of being on BB seems to be "proving" your political party and your theology is correct and everyone else is wrong and/or going to Hell. I've been reading this sort of reflector list for twenty years and have not read a new idea for the last ten or fifteen.

Come on Bill, you don't believe that and neither do I. I was saved in spite of my ignorance of theology when I was saved. I remained saved in spite of being misled to believe certain things after salvation. You or no one else on this forum knows EVERYTHING and are always WRONG in some things and always GROWING in knowledge in other things.

The bottom line is simply do you know you are a sinner and that God's provision in Christ for sin is sufficient to save you? Has that knowledge changed your life - made you a new creation in Christ manifested by progressive Christ likeness?

 

[Yeshua1]

So one holding to such views would state the Great Commission not in force today, as the Lord knows and has already saved His own?

 

[billwald]

Jesus has not returned thus there must be more "Predestined" people in the world who need to hear the gospel. Dispensationalists and Arminians think the world is getting worse and worse and don't have any reason to think that anyone will respond to their preaching.

Further, if Jesus can't return until every person has heard it and been given a chance to respond then Jesus can't return until there have been several years of universal infertility.

 

[Yeshua1]

Jesus has not returned thus there must be more "Predestined" people in the world who need to hear the gospel. Dispensationalists and Arminians think the world is getting worse and worse and don't have any reason to think that anyone will respond to their preaching.

Further, if Jesus can't return until every person has heard it and been given a chance to respond then Jesus can't return until there have been several years of universal infertility.

There is no limitation to when jesus can actually return as that has been imminent since his ascension!

 

[billwald]

I wonder what the Christian Church will be preaching in another 2000 years with Jesus' return still imminent?

 

[Yeshua1]

I wonder what the Christian Church will be preaching in another 2000 years with Jesus' return still imminent?

Act as IF jesus not coming back in your lifetime, but also could be here by Lunch!

 

[steaver]

I wonder what the Christian Church will be preaching in another 2000 years with Jesus' return still imminent?

According to the prophecy, Jesus said we could not know the day nor hour but that we should know the season. According to the signs told by Jesus that we should look for, the season has come. Come Lord Jesus, Come.

 

[billwald]

A thousand years is like a day. we only have 364,000 years to wait. More or less.

 

[steaver]

A thousand years is like a day. we only have 364,000 years to wait. More or less.

"But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day [is] with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day."

Has no other application than to say that God does not feel time as we do. Peter could have picked any large number to make his point, he could have said 10,000 years is as a day with the Lord. Notice also he said "as" a thousand years and not "is" a thousand years.