Featured Foreknowledge: God’s Crystal Ball??

The good news is that the majority of Arminians are ignorant of the logical disconnect between God's omniscience and their salvation working out in time. There may be some Arminians who tend towards Open Theism on this board who would affirm that God is dependent on human activity before He can save, but that same "majority" group of Arminians would repudiate that idea. I thank God for that even though it stems from a logical disconnect. I call that a "happy inconsistency".

 

Jon, my journey was similar. Even after the Bible rendered its verdict, I dragged my feet in admitting the truth. It was a difficult thing for me to publicly change a core belief.

 

You know, the word of God distinguishes between foreknowledge and predestination. The scriptures say whom God did foreknow, he also did predestinate, so foreknowledge and predestination are not the same thing. But that seems to be how Calvinism desires to define foreknowledge.

Do the scriptures show anyone who was chosen or elected, and yet that person chose to serve God? Yes, the prophet Isaiah.

Isa 49:5 And now, saith the LORD that formed me from the womb to be his servant, to bring Jacob again to him, Though Israel be not gathered, yet shall I be glorious in the eyes of the LORD, and my God shall be my strength.

Isaiah said the Lord formed him from the womb to be his servant. But the scriptures also show Isaiah chose to be God's servant.

Isa 6:1 In the year that king Uzziah died I saw also the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up, and his train filled the temple.
2 Above it stood the seraphims: each one had six wings; with twain he covered his face, and with twain he covered his feet, and with twain he did fly.
3 And one cried unto another, and said, Holy, holy, holy, is the LORD of hosts: the whole earth is full of his glory.
4 And the posts of the door moved at the voice of him that cried, and the house was filled with smoke.
5 Then said I, Woe is me! for I am undone; because I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips: for mine eyes have seen the King, the LORD of hosts.
6 Then flew one of the seraphims unto me, having a live coal in his hand, which he had taken with the tongs from off the altar:
7 And he laid it upon my mouth, and said, Lo, this hath touched thy lips; and thine iniquity is taken away, and thy sin purged.
8 Also I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, Whom shall I send, and who will go for us? Then said I, Here am I; send me.

We see here in verse 7 that Isaiah believed on the Lord in time and his iniquities were taken away, and his sin purged.

But in the next verse we see that Isaiah heard the Lord call, "Whom shall I send, and who will go for us?" So it was not at all determined yet whom God would choose or send. Note also that God asked who "will" go for us. So this person was not compelled.

Then we see Isaiah willingly chose to answer God's call, he willingly chose to be sent and serve God.

So, we see foreknowledge and free choice here, God formed Isaiah from the womb to be his servant, but he did not force or compel Isaiah to be his servant, Isaiah chose to be his servant willingly of his own free will and choice.

God simply knew that Isaiah would believe, and that he would willingly serve him.

This is an example of election according to foreknowledge whether you understand it or not.

 

Well, when a person says that God can only foreknow what he has determined, isn't that saying that foreknowledge and predestination are practically the same thing?

From Monergism dot com

While the two words do not have the exact meaning in Reformed/Calvinistic thought, for all practical purposes they are the same. In Calvinsim, God can only foreknow those persons he has predestined to save.

But as you see in Isaiah, God chose Isaiah to be his servant when he formed him in the womb, but Isaiah chose to serve God of his own free will.

My view is that God knew before Isaiah was born that he would believe and that he would be a willing servant, and so elected him or chose him for this particular service or office.

 

Here is what Arthur Pink (a Calvinist) wrote about foreknowledge;

The scriptures say we are elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father (1 Pet 1:2), but Pink says scripture says just the opposite, that foreknowledge is based upon what God has decreed.

Pink says God does not elect because he foreknows people, but he foreknows people because he elected them.

That is not what my Bible says. How about yours?

 

I define it simply to know or see something before it happens. A perfect example is Nathanael in John 1.

Jhn 1:44 Now Philip was of Bethsaida, the city of Andrew and Peter.
45 Philip findeth Nathanael, and saith unto him, We have found him, of whom Moses in the law, and the prophets, did write, Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.
46 And Nathanael said unto him, Can there any good thing come out of Nazareth? Philip saith unto him, Come and see.
47 Jesus saw Nathanael coming to him, and saith of him, Behold an Israelite indeed, in whom is no guile!
48 Nathanael saith unto him, Whence knowest thou me? Jesus answered and said unto him, Before that Philip called thee, when thou wast under the fig tree, I saw thee.
49 Nathanael answered and saith unto him, Rabbi, thou art the Son of God; thou art the King of Israel.
50 Jesus answered and said unto him, Because I said unto thee, I saw thee under the fig tree, believest thou? thou shalt see greater things than these.
51 And he saith unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Hereafter ye shall see heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending upon the Son of man.

Note that the scriptures say "Jesus SAW Nathanael coming to him"

Note that Jesus compliments Nathanael and calls him an Israelite indeed. Compare this to what Paul said in Romans 2.

Rom 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Jesus KNEW that Nathanael was a true believer, this is why he called him a true Jew and complimented him. Jesus saw his FAITH.

Note Nathanael's great surprise and how he asks, "Whence KNOWEST thou me?" This is foreknowledge, Jesus KNEW Nathanael though they had never met.

Note how Jesus answered, "BEFORE that Philip CALLED thee, when thou wast under the fig tree, I SAW thee". This is foreknowledge.

NOW Nathanael believes on Jesus and confesses he is the Son of God, the King of Israel. You see, Nathanael had always believed the word of God, and he believed the OT promises of a Messiah or Christ.

This is foreknowledge. Another very simple example of foreknowledge shown in scripture is when the prodigal son repents and decides to go back to his father and ask forgiveness, the scriptures say while he was a great way off, his father saw him.

Luk 15:20 And he arose, and came to his father. But when he was yet a great way off, his father saw him, and had compassion, and ran, and fell on his neck, and kissed him.

This is foreknowledge. Though the prodigal had left home (refutes Original Sin) and gone out in sin, when he repented and turned toward home his father was already looking for him and saw him when he was still "a great way off".

This is foreknowledge.

 

I really don't pay much attention to how Calvinists define foreknowledge, I think the scriptures themselves show what foreknowledge is.

Folks can make fun and call it God looking into a crystal ball, but God can see the future. To say God can only see what he has determined is to limit his power.

It would be like predicting the outcomes of all the horse races at a track one day. Now, if you could truly predict all the winners before each race, most folks would consider that to be supernatural.

But if they found out every race was fixed by you beforehand, they would consider you a phony and a cheat.

Think about that.

 

Hmmm... not sure I understand what you are saying here.

I do have to say something here though, I misapplied Isa 49:5 in my original argument.

Isa 49:5 And now, saith the LORD that formed me from the womb to be his servant, to bring Jacob again to him, Though Israel be not gathered, yet shall I be glorious in the eyes of the LORD, and my God shall be my strength.

This verse is actually a prophecy of the Messiah or Christ to come and is not speaking of Isaiah, so I was mistaken to misapply this verse to Isaiah.

I think it could still be argued that every prophet was chosen before they were born as shown by Jeremiah and Paul;

Jer 1:5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.
6 Then said I, Ah, Lord GOD! behold, I cannot speak: for I am a child.
7 But the LORD said unto me, Say not, I am a child: for thou shalt go to all that I shall send thee, and whatsoever I command thee thou shalt speak.
8 Be not afraid of their faces: for I am with thee to deliver thee, saith the LORD.

I believe this passage shows Jeremiah also willingly obeyed and was not compelled. At first he was hesitant to go because of his youth, but the Lord encouraged him and he obeyed.

Paul is similar, Paul also says he was chosen from the womb to be a prophet.

Gal 1:15 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace,
16 To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:

Paul was chosen from his mother's womb, yet he willingly obeyed.

Acts 26:19 Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I was not disobedient unto the heavenly vision:

It would not make sense for Paul to say he was not disobedient if he did not have a choice and was compelled to do what the Lord commanded.

And of course we see in the story of Jonah that a prophet could refuse to obey his commands from God.

Jon 1:1 Now the word of the LORD came unto Jonah the son of Amittai, saying,
2 Arise, go to Nineveh, that great city, and cry against it; for their wickedness is come up before me.
3 But Jonah rose up to flee unto Tarshish from the presence of the LORD, and went down to Joppa; and he found a ship going to Tarshish: so he paid the fare thereof, and went down into it, to go with them unto Tarshish from the presence of the LORD.

What does all this have to do with foreknowledge? These scriptures show that God chose or elected the prophets (at least Jeremiah and Paul) to serve him at or before birth, yet they chose willingly to obey God and were not forced or compelled. Jonah proves that a prophet could have disobeyed if he so chose to do so.

 

Calvinists believe God irresistibly causes those incapable of being willing to become willing. I would say that is compulsion, they say it is not. It is not much different than drugging someone who is unwilling to make them willing. That is a form of force.

How is it possible to know a person intimately without knowing what they do? Don't we evaluate and judge people according to how they act and what they do? So, this sort of argument doesn't quite cut it with me.

It is true that Jesus says that he never knew those false converts in Matthew 7, so it is certain that he was speaking of an intimate relationship. But again, how do we judge what an intimate relationship is? Do we not judge it by what people do and how they treat us? If a person is loving and kind toward us, we enter into an intimate relationship with them, if a person is cruel and hateful toward us we do not.

It is certain that these persons were boasting of their good works. They boasted they prophesied in Jesus' name, they cast out devils in his name, and did many good works in his name. These persons attempted to earn salvation through works.

A true Christian does not try to work, but trusts and relies on Jesus alone to save them. This involves a personal intimate relationship, as trust always involves a degree of intimacy. In fact, those we trust most are those we have the most intimate relationships with.

There is scripture in my opinion that shows this foreknowledge of God is speaking of seeing faith. I think I showed you Nathanael, and how Jesus called him an Israelite indeed. This implies he had faith, he was a Jew inwardly as Paul explained in Romans 2.

But there are verses showing we are chosen according to faith.

2 The 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

Note how God has "from the beginning" chosen us to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and "belief of the truth". So there is faith right there, and it is said to be a factor in our election.

Tit 1:1 Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;

What one quality of the elect does Paul mention here? Faith.

Jam 2:5 Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?

James here says that God has chosen the poor of this world. Because they are poor? NO, because they are rich in faith.

I think you are starting to see the picture.