Foreknowledge of God

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

Your question FAL is in the same category as?

Show me a verse that says "God is a Trinity."
Show me a verse that says "Jesus is God."
Show me a verse that says "The Holy Spirit is God."

These are truths that are gleaned from a preponderance of scripture. What you are looking for is for God to put things in the langauge you want them in. For God to be the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, etc is all I need to know that He knows the WHOLE story.

This is a dangerous false thrology. It makes god (I did that on purpose) subservient to man. My God is NEVER caught off guard. I am not a strict Calvinist - I don't accept the idea that God has chosen those to be saved (different debate fellas ) but I do beleive that He knows who will be saved througout all eternity.

Man cannot pre-empt God.

 

[Craigbythesea]

God's absolute omniscience; past, present and future is clearly one of His attributes.

Watchman,

You remind me of a little girl playing house with a rag doll!!!

God is not a rag doll; He is our sovereign Lord.

Once in a while someone on this board expresses some very frightening views, but your views expressed here go to the very heart of who God is.
That makes me very fearfull for you. There are many passages that clearly show that God knows the end from the beginning, that He knows all that is within us and what we will do and that He knows, exactly, what will happen the next day, year or century.

Watchman,

Once in a while someone on this board expresses some very frightening views, but your views expressed here go to the very heart of who God is. That makes me very fearfull of you. There are many passages in the Bible that clearly show that God is sovereign and, therefore, under no obligation to know the things that you personally believe that He has to know. Just who are you setting yourself up to be?

 

[Watchman]

Originally posted by Craigbythesea:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> God's absolute omniscience; past, present and future is clearly one of His attributes.

Watchman,

You remind me of a little girl playing house with a rag doll!!!

God is not a rag doll; He is our sovereign Lord.

Once in a while someone on this board expresses some very frightening views, but your views expressed here go to the very heart of who God is.
That makes me very fearfull for you. There are many passages that clearly show that God knows the end from the beginning, that He knows all that is within us and what we will do and that He knows, exactly, what will happen the next day, year or century.

Watchman,

Once in a while someone on this board expresses some very frightening views, but your views expressed here go to the very heart of who God is. That makes me very fearfull of you. There are many passages in the Bible that clearly show that God is sovereign and, therefore, under no obligation to know the things that you personally believe that He has to know. Just who are you setting yourself up to be? </font>[/QUOTE]Craig, I have absolutely no idea what you are saying. If anyone here knows what he is saying, please let me know. Who in the world is questioning God's sovereignty? Is it your belief then (do I understand you correctly), that, because God is sovereign, He does not know everything? Or, chooses not to know everything? Look at what you are saying.
"Just who are you setting yourself up to be?"
Because I, and others here, are defending one of the attributes of God; the fact that He is all-knowing, I am setting myself up to be somebody? God help me NOT to set myself up to be anything but another poor sinner saved by grace through faith in our Lord Jesus Christ. Your attack on me is unwarranted and undisserved.

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

I think CBS confused your reply to one of FAL posts Watchman.

 

[Craigbythesea]

Craig, I have absolutely no idea what you are saying.

I do not know how to dummy-down my post any further.

Perhaps if you will read this sentence a few more times, you will be able to figure out what I am saying,

There are many passages in the Bible that clearly show that God is sovereign and, therefore, under no obligation to know the things that you personally believe that He has to know.

 

[freeatlast]

Originally posted by C4K:
Your question FAL is in the same category as?

Show me a verse that says "God is a Trinity."
Show me a verse that says "Jesus is God."
Show me a verse that says "The Holy Spirit is God."

These are truths that are gleaned from a preponderance of scripture. What you are looking for is for God to put things in the langauge you want them in. For God to be the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, etc is all I need to know that He knows the WHOLE story.

This is a dangerous false thrology. It makes god (I did that on purpose) subservient to man. My God is NEVER caught off guard. I am not a strict Calvinist - I don't accept the idea that God has chosen those to be saved (different debate fellas ) but I do beleive that He knows who will be saved througout all eternity.

Man cannot pre-empt God.

You may believe it but you have no foot to stand on. We know that there is a trinity because there is scriptural evidence of that but nothing to suggest that God knows all history before it happens. The danger is in teaching He does. It makes Him less then God since because it does away with His sovereign rule.

 

[Watchman]

Roger: No, he meant me, and he is taking FAL's position on this issue.

Craig, Again, on God's sovereignty there is no dispute there.
"...under no obligation to know..." is the matter of contention.
God's sovereignty is in no way affected because of what He knows. God is sovereign, yes. God knows all that there is to know because He is God.

As for God's foreknowledge, there are, well, I haven't counted, perhaps hundreds of prophecies that were fullfilled, including many that pertained to God's foreknowledge of what individuals would do. And they were fullfilled to the letter.

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

Gotcha Watchman- I see that now. I am still amazed that folks are jumping into this ungodly "theology".

In the same way that we know God is a Trinity we know that God knows all by the whole body of Scripture.

How in the world does God's omniscience contradict His sovereignty?!?

 

[Watchman]

"How in the world does God's omniscience contradict His sovereignty?!?

Roger, that is what I am still trying to figure out.

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

I have been able to comprehend several false doctrines in the past - this one mystifies me.

Where does it come from?
Why would one accept it?

 

[Marcia]

Posted by Craig:
Am I to understand that you believe that you have the authority to decide for our sovereign God that He is obligated to know the future whether He may chose to or not to in a given situation or set of situations? Your theology reduces our Sovereign Lord to a servant of your will. That is the very antithesis of who and what God is! Either God is sovereign, or He is not. If He is sovereign, He is under no obligation to bow down to you and know everything that YOU believe he should know. The Bible DOES NOT teach that God knows everything! The Bible does teach that God has been surprised by, and disappointed by, the decisions that some people have made. How dare you criticize a man for disagreeing with your petty, shallow theology?

Ad hominem (or maybe ad-ho-hum) attack.

My belief that God is omniscient is a "petty, shallow theology?" I am almost speechless (only almost). I did not say God is under obligation to bow down to me!!!!! Where are you getting this?

I merely asked FAL why he believes God does not know everything. He has not given any scriptural support for this statement. It is NOT wrong for me to ask for it.

Since you also advocate this view, please give scriptural support for your statement that "the Bible DOES NOT teach that God knows everything."

 

[Craigbythesea]

1. In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
2. The earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters.
3. Then God said, "Let there be light"; and there was light.
4. God saw that the light was good; and God separated the light from the darkness.

Shall I quote the rest of the Bible?

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

This is amazing logic.

If I believe that God knows everything I don't think He is sovereign and I am obligating Him to bow down to me?!?!?!

 

[dianetavegia]

I can come up with numerous verses where God and Jesus or even an angel gave directions to a mere man or woman about the future! Unfortunately, my first day care child is arriving so I can't post them right now. Here's what I had time to cut and paste.

ALL the O.T. prophecy...

Acts 10:1-8
1 There was a certain man in Caesarea called Cornelius, a centurion of what was called the Italian Regiment, 2 a devout man and one who feared God with all his household, who gave alms generously to the people, and prayed to God always. 3 About the ninth hour of the day he saw clearly in a vision an angel of God coming in and saying to him, "Cornelius!" 4 And when he observed him, he was afraid, and said, "What is it, lord?" So he said to him, "Your prayers and your alms have come up for a memorial before God. 5 Now send men to Joppa, and send for Simon whose surname is Peter. 6 He is lodging with Simon, a tanner, whose house is by the sea. F49 He will tell you what you must do." 7 And when the angel who spoke to him had departed, Cornelius called two of his household servants and a devout soldier from among those who waited on him continually. 8 So when he had explained all these things to them, he sent them to Joppa.

Matthew 26:17-25
17 Now on the first day of the Feast of the Unleavened Bread the disciples came to Jesus, saying to Him, "Where do You want us to prepare for You to eat the Passover?" 18 And He said, "Go into the city to a certain man, and say to him, 'The Teacher says, "My time is at hand; I will keep the Passover at your house with My disciples." ' " 19 So the disciples did as Jesus had directed them; and they prepared the Passover. 20 When evening had come, He sat down with the twelve. 21 Now as they were eating, He said, "Assuredly, I say to you, one of you will betray Me." 22 And they were exceedingly sorrowful, and each of them began to say to Him, "Lord, is it I?" 23 He answered and said, "He who dipped his hand with Me in the dish will betray Me. 24 The Son of Man indeed goes just as it is written of Him, but woe to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed! It would have been good for that man if he had not been born." 25 Then Judas, who was betraying Him, answered and said, "Rabbi, is it I?" He said to him, "You have said it."

Matt. 26:12 For in pouring this fragrant oil on My body, she did it for My burial. 13 Assuredly, I say to you, wherever this gospel is preached in the whole world, what this woman has done will also be told as a memorial to her."

 

[Craigbythesea]

Originally posted by C4K:
This is amazing logic.

If I believe that God knows everything I don't think He is sovereign and I am obligating Him to bow down to me?!?!?!

I don’t have to be logical—I’m a Baptist!

However, the Bible does not say that God knows everything; and for you tell me that God has no choice but to know everything because you said so suggests that you believe that God is obligated to bow down to you and do as you tell Him.

Personally, I believe that God is sovereign and therefore has the choice to either know or not know the future, and the Bible tells us (who understand it ) that there have been times when God chose not to know the future. (Has anyone ever told you about a great murder mystery movie they saw at the cinema, and when they saw that you were interested, they told you everything about it—including who done it ). We all enjoy suspense

. Who are you to tell God that he can’t enjoy any of it for Himself?

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

Well Craig - you have left me speechless - you have a higher regard for God than I do because you don't think He is omniscient. How do I answer that?!?

 

[Craigbythesea]

He is omniscient

According to whose definition--His or yours?

 

[danrusdad]

omni = all
science = knowledge

therefore: omniscience = all knowing

not "knowing what He wants to know" or "knowing what I think He should know" or "knowing what I choose to know". It means ALL knowing.

If God doesn't know everything, then He cannot be omniscient. It is contrary to the definition of omniscience.

God, by definition, cannot lack in ANY attribute that He has. If He is loving, He is ALL loving; if He is powerful, He is ALL powerful; and if He is knowing, He is all knowing.

The fact that God is revealed as being sad at the sinfulness of His creation in no way contradicts the reality of His perfect knowledge.

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

Thanks Dan - you beart me back to it.

The problem is ignoring Isaiah 55v8-11

For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts. For as the rain cometh down, and the snow from heaven, and returneth not thither, but watereth the earth, and maketh it bring forth and bud, that it may give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater: So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

His ways are NOT our ways. We cannot limit God's knowledge.

I can just see it now - the morning of 9/11 God saying - "Boy, that one got by me!"

 

[Watchman]

Great post Diane.
One thing I would add is the amazing prophecy David gave in Psalm 22.
Critics here might be able to answer the predictions there as to what Jesus would say, "My God, My God..."
But, "they pierced my hands and my feet."(?) This did not happen to David. In fact, no one used this form of punishment until the Romans came along, hundreds of years after David.
As for knowing what individuals would do, in great detail, look to the base of the cross. There at the cross the soldiers did exactly as God, through David, said they would do. They divided His clothes among them, but when they saw that the tunic was all one piece, they cast lots for it.
May I add a question here concerning, "Them He did foreknow, them He also did predesignate." How could He do that? He must foreknow that that person would exist, therefore knowing that the persons parents would have them, that the parents' parents would have them and... well, all the way back to Adam and Eve. It can't be any other way.
I do not feel that God needs defending, by me, or anyone else. That God is not all knowing is nonsense and blasphemy.