Foreknowledge of God

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

The scary thing is that this kind of nonsense is real.

The group "Evangelical Churches of Ireland United" just adopted it as part of their statement of faith.

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

(Found a smiley to express my thoughts)

 

[Marcia]

Originally posted by Craigbythesea:
1. In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
2. The earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters.
3. Then God said, "Let there be light"; and there was light.
4. God saw that the light was good; and God separated the light from the darkness.

Shall I quote the rest of the Bible?

This is how you answer the question of what scripture supports your contention that God does not know the future? If you went on to quote the whole Bible, it would not support your contention.

God is omniscient -- He knows everything past, present and future. God is beyond time and is not living moment to moment, so actually, I do not believe the future is the future for him. He just knows everything. If He didn't, he would not be God. He would be imperfect because he would be lacking in knowledge of something. How could this be God??? I'm mystified by your view.

 

[Marcia]

Originally posted by C4K:
The scary thing is that this kind of nonsense is real.

The group "Evangelical Churches of Ireland United" just adopted it as part of their statement of faith.

C4K, do you mean they have adopted Open Theism as part of their statement of faith? I would really like to know this. Thanks!

 

[GODzThunder]

God knows all and sees all. He even knows where Jimmy Hoffa is buried.

 

[GODzThunder]

oh yes, and I don't believe God can see or withold knowledge of the future. I see that impossible because God makes the future and is the future. He is the alpha and omega.

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

Originally posted by Marcia:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by C4K:
The scary thing is that this kind of nonsense is real.

The group "Evangelical Churches of Ireland United" just adopted it as part of their statement of faith.

C4K, do you mean they have adopted Open Theism as part of their statement of faith? I would really like to know this. Thanks! </font>[/QUOTE]Sorry Marcia,

I have no documentation soprobably should nothave posted that. I was at a meeting of the Association of Baptist Churches of Ireland (as a visitor) where it was being discussed, then heard from a friend who was at a meeting where it was discussed and according to hin adopted by AECI, but have not documented it.

 

[Marcia]

Thanks, C4K. If you happen to find out that they adopted it, could you either post it maybe in the News that Affects Baptists Worldwide forum, or go to my website and email me from there (by clicking on "Contact CANA")? I do not post my email here for various reasons. Thanks.

 

[Marcia]

Ooops, guess my email is posted here. I was thinking of another list.

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

Will do Marcia.

 

[freeatlast]

I think that the problem is that men cannot handle the idea that God has always been. It is one thing to say He has always been and another to be able to comprehend it. Our brains just cannot keep going back into infinity and comprehend the idea of eternal existence when it involves God. So what we have done is come up with teachings that are not biblical about time. Teachings like God lives outside of time and so forth.
In any question about time being a created thing the answer is yes and no. First if we will take a look at the Gen. account we see that God created everything in 6 days. In the beginning of the creation there was no sun, stars moon or any other thing to determine time. However the scripture clearly shows that time was still there. So time has always been, but how it is understood or dealt with by man is part of the creation.
And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
For there to be a reckoning of a day without any way to determind the length of that day there has to be time. Time is not an entity in itself and more then it is the result of the creation and while it is true that God is not subject to it, time is a result of the being (or existence) of God. However that being said the manner in which time is now determined by man IS a part of the creation, but time itself has always been.
As to does God exsist in time, yes, but not necessarily in the same dimension of that time which we hold or value as our time. I believe that he moves in and out of that dimension. There is the aspect of time itself and the aspect of how time is valued, but time is as eternal as God Himself in my opinion.

So again there is no scripture that even suggests that time has not always been, or that God knows all eternity before it takes place. He does know the beginning from the end and that is because He has ordained it. He clearly does know certain other events as the scripture points out, but in every case He has ordain those events. To me this makes Him far more superior then does the idea that He knows everything in all history before it happens and knows it from eternity past,.
I hold that He knows every possible scenario of all eternity and if one thinks about that it will blow the mind. He then has created beings that are permitted to live out there lives within those possibilities yet they are governed by certain limits He has ordained. By the way those possibilities are as infinite as He is and only governed by His omniscient and Sovereign will.

Now I realize that when this subject is brought up many feel that what is happening is that we are robbing God of some power or ability. I do not feel that. I feel that He has already been robbed by the teaching that He knows all eternity before it happens. On the other hand for Him to know every possibility for all eternity and create beings within those possibilities allowing them the freedom to live and act out their own wills and to still be able to hold control over those actions by His Devine and sovereign will blows my mind. Believe me it would be much easier for me to go with the mainstream on this and teach that God knows all history before it happens, but scripture in my opinion just does not bare that out. It actually points in the other direction in my opinion.
I will be looking for your reply, as well as those of others. God bless

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

Sorry folks - I just cannot grasp a "theology" that says we rob God by saying He is omniscient. I guess I'd better step aside in my ignorance.

 

[freeatlast]

Originally posted by C4K:
Sorry folks - I just cannot grasp a "theology" that says we rob God by saying He is omniscient. I guess I'd better step aside in my ignorance.

Anytime that we add to or take from the word we rob God and there is no scripture that teaches that he knows all history before it happens.

 

[pinoybaptist]

freeatlast said:

.....and there is no scripture that teaches that he knows all history before it happens.

National Israel's history in a nutshell, told by God to Moses, before Israel crossed over to Jordan, and before Moses' death:

Deuteronomy 31:16-21

And the LORD said unto Moses, Behold, thou shalt sleep with thy fathers; and this people will rise up, and go a whoring after the gods of the strangers of the land, whither they go to be among them, and will forsake me, and break my covenant which I have made with them.

Then my anger shall be kindled against them in that day, and I will forsake them, and I will hide my face from them, and they shall be devoured, and many evils and troubles shall befall them; so that they will say in that day, Are not these evils come upon us, because our God is not among us?

And I will surely hide my face in that day for all the evils which they shall have wrought, in that they are turned unto other gods.

Now therefore write ye this song for you, and teach it the children of Israel: put it in their mouths, that this song may be a witness for me against the children of Israel.

For when I shall have brought them into the land which I sware unto their fathers, that floweth with milk and honey; and they shall have eaten and filled themselves, and waxen fat; then will they turn unto other gods, and serve them, and provoke me, and break my covenant.

And it shall come to pass, when many evils and troubles are befallen them, that this song shall testify against them as a witness; for it shall not be forgotten out of the mouths of their seed: for I know their imagination which they go about, even now, before I have brought them into the land which I sware.

You just robbed God of His glory by pulling Him down to your level of ignorance of what will transpire at the next hour.

 

[freeatlast]

Originally posted by pinoybaptist:
freeatlast said:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />

.....and there is no scripture that teaches that he knows all history before it happens.

National Israel's history in a nutshell, told by God to Moses, before Israel crossed over to Jordan, and before Moses' death:

Deuteronomy 31:16-21

And the LORD said unto Moses, Behold, thou shalt sleep with thy fathers; and this people will rise up, and go a whoring after the gods of the strangers of the land, whither they go to be among them, and will forsake me, and break my covenant which I have made with them.

Then my anger shall be kindled against them in that day, and I will forsake them, and I will hide my face from them, and they shall be devoured, and many evils and troubles shall befall them; so that they will say in that day, Are not these evils come upon us, because our God is not among us?

And I will surely hide my face in that day for all the evils which they shall have wrought, in that they are turned unto other gods.

Now therefore write ye this song for you, and teach it the children of Israel: put it in their mouths, that this song may be a witness for me against the children of Israel.

For when I shall have brought them into the land which I sware unto their fathers, that floweth with milk and honey; and they shall have eaten and filled themselves, and waxen fat; then will they turn unto other gods, and serve them, and provoke me, and break my covenant.

And it shall come to pass, when many evils and troubles are befallen them, that this song shall testify against them as a witness; for it shall not be forgotten out of the mouths of their seed: for I know their imagination which they go about, even now, before I have brought them into the land which I sware.

You just robbed God of His glory by pulling Him down to your level of ignorance of what will transpire at the next hour. </font>[/QUOTE]If you would read the posts you would not have so much egg on your face. What God predicted he ordained first. That means it had to happen because of Hos word, not because he looked and saw it.

 

[pinoybaptist]

Oh, I get it. You're the Absoluter. The one who says God has no foreknowledge really because even when you expel hot air (like you're doing now), he foreordained that.

Okay. I gotcha.

 

[GODzThunder]

in our minds, perfection is based upon omniscience. To have a God that is any less is to have a great flaw in our view of perfection thus making God imperfect. It is in us to see omniscience as perfection. Hmmmm, I wonder where we get such a thought from???

 

[Marcia]

Believe me it would be much easier for me to go with the mainstream on this and teach that God knows all history before it happens, but scripture in my opinion just does not bare that out

If God does not know everything, then He lacks some knowledge of something and is imperfect in his knowledge. This is not the God of the Bible.

How does scripture support your view that God does not know everything?

 

[Daniel David]

Freeatlast, does not God say that he declares the end from the beginning? Does not Psalm 139 state that a man's days are numbered and known by God prior to that man's creation?

Oops, sorry for introducing Scripture into your little idolatrous theory.

 

[Helen]

Since God invented time, and is outside of it, of course He knows all that has happened before it happens. He declares so Himself in Isaiah (read chapters 40-48 for a personal Bible study!).

Do not, however, confuse foreknowledge with foreordination.

He knew man was going to sin, therefore the penalty for that sin was accepted by Him from the foundation of the world (Rev. 13:8). However He never ordained man to sin, or He would have been contradicting His own directions to Adam and Eve.

I can allow my children free choice on an issue, and still know them well enough to know exactly wht that choice will be before they make it. And God knows us ever so much better than we know our children.