From Isaiah's prophecy to Cyrus

[rlvaughn]

Commenting on Isaiah 45:1-4, Matthew Henry wrote,

Now here, 210 years before it came to pass, we are told...What great things God would do for him, that he might put it into his power to release his people.

Henry gives 210 years from the time Isaiah gave his prophecy naming Cyrus to the time of Cyrus. I wonder -- if you believe this is a true prophecy -- whether you have ever tried to work out the time, biblically and/or historically, and if so, what length of time you came up with? I think that it is roughly that length of time (210), but am not currently able to feel as specific as Henry.

It's a free country, so if you don't believe it was a true prophecy I'm sure you'll feel free to chime in as well, which is your right. But as far as I'm concerned I'm only interested in the opinions regarding this as a length of time from a predictive prophecy to its fulfillment.

Thanks.

 

[PastoralMusings]

I'd be inclined to check Ussher on it.
Maybe I'll remember to do so when I get to my desk tomorrow.

 

[kyredneck]

28 That saith of Cyrus, He is my shepherd, and shall perform all my pleasure, even saying of Jerusalem, She shall be built; and of the temple, Thy foundation shall be laid. Isa 44

… He is my shepherd…
11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd layeth down his life for the sheep. Jn 10

… and shall perform all my pleasure…
34 Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to accomplish his work. Jn 4

… even saying of Jerusalem, She shall be built…
18 And I also say unto thee, that thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it. Mt 16

… and of the temple, Thy foundation shall be laid…
4 unto whom coming, a living stone, rejected indeed of men, but with God elect, precious,
5 ye also, as living stones, are built up a spiritual house, to be a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.
6 Because it is contained in scripture, Behold, I lay in Zion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: And he that believeth on him shall not be put to shame. 1 Pet 2

 

[rlvaughn]

28 That saith of Cyrus, He is my shepherd, and shall perform all my pleasure, even saying of Jerusalem, She shall be built; and of the temple, Thy foundation shall be laid. Isa 44

Ezra 6:3 In the first year of Cyrus the king the same Cyrus the king made a decree concerning the house of God at Jerusalem, Let the house be builded, the place where they offered sacrifices, and let the foundations thereof be strongly laid; the height thereof threescore cubits, and the breadth thereof threescore cubits;

Not sure I'm following what you're saying, overall. If that Cyrus is a type of Christ, I agree. He is called by God his shepherd and his anointed, both of which names are also used of Christ. If that this prophecy is only of Christ and not of the historical king Cyrus, I disagree.

 

[rlvaughn]

I'd be inclined to check Ussher on it.
Maybe I'll remember to do so when I get to my desk tomorrow.

I look forward to seeing what you find. I remember many older Bibles when I young had Ussher’s dates in them, but I don't think I have one now that does.

According the Encyclopedia Britannica, Cyrus was born between 590 and 580 B.C., Babylon fell to Cyrus in 539 B.C., and in 538 B.C. he freed the Jews and allowed them to return to Jerusalem. Some historians say Isaiah’s ministry occurred circa 740–701 B.C. If so, that puts at least 111 years between Isaiah’s prophecy and the birth of Cyrus. My attempted timeline of OT events puts the calling of Isaiah 3290 years after the seventh day of creation, and the decree of Cyrus at 3519 years after the seventh day of creation. Therefore, that puts an outside number of 229 years. Between 111-229 years is where I am beginning, looking for a more definitive number – and how one arrives at that number.

 

[tyndale1946]

Brother Robert I'm not an historian like yourself but have you checked Josephus Antiquities Book 11 and Alfred Edersheim's Bible History Old Testament Chapter 17... You could also check John Gill's Exposition Of The Bible... I believe all these mentioned are online... Brother Glen

 

[rlvaughn]

Thanks, Brother Glen. I checked John Gill's commentary (and he also references Josephus):

This prophecy, concerning him, was nearly two hundred years before he was born. Josephus says, that Cyrus read this prophecy himself, which Isaiah had delivered out two hundred and ten years before; and which is a proof both of God's prescience of future contingencies, and of the truth of divine revelation.

Josephus is apparently the source of the 210 years dating. The way Josephus puts it is this:

This was foretold by Isaiah one hundred and forty years before the temple was demolished.

Add 70 years captivity and you get 210.

 

[tyndale1946]

I have set a goal to read The War Of The Jews in its entirety, and this may take a while but I feel well worth it... Who did what to whom and why and where and how and what was the outcome?... But I'll still be reading and studying other things too, as well as being on here as my whimsical self... I guess you can say I have full plate!... Brother Glen

 

[kyredneck]

Not sure I'm following what you're saying, overall. If that Cyrus is a type of Christ

Yes. Overall a very good one.

If that this prophecy is only of Christ

No. It's a dual fulfillment prophecy as with Isaiah 7:14.

 

[PastoralMusings]

I look forward to seeing what you find. I remember many older Bibles when I young had Ussher’s dates in them, but I don't think I have one now that does.

According the Encyclopedia Britannica, Cyrus was born between 590 and 580 B.C., Babylon fell to Cyrus in 539 B.C., and in 538 B.C. he freed the Jews and allowed them to return to Jerusalem. Some historians say Isaiah’s ministry occurred circa 740–701 B.C. If so, that puts at least 111 years between Isaiah’s prophecy and the birth of Cyrus. My attempted timeline of OT events puts the calling of Isaiah 3290 years after the seventh day of creation, and the decree of Cyrus at 3519 years after the seventh day of creation. Therefore, that puts an outside number of 229 years. Between 111-229 years is where I am beginning, looking for a more definitive number – and how one arrives at that number.

I'm not getting much detail with a cursory look. I'll look more closely when I can.

 

[kyredneck]

I have set a goal to read The War Of The Jews in its entirety

Actually that section of his works isn't all that long. When/if you do read it remember passages such as:

3 A voice of the wailing of the shepherds! for their glory is destroyed: a voice of the roaring of young lions! for the pride of the Jordan is laid waste.
4 Thus said Jehovah my God: Feed the flock of slaughter;
5 whose possessors slay them, and hold themselves not guilty; and they that sell them say, Blessed be Jehovah, for I am rich; and their own shepherds pity them not.
6 For I will no more pity the inhabitants of the land, saith Jehovah; but, lo, I will deliver the men every one into his neighbor`s hand, and into the hand of his king; and they shall smite the land, and out of their hand I will not deliver them.
7 So I fed the flock of slaughter, verily the poor of the flock. And I took unto me two staves; the one I called Beauty, and the other I called Bands; and I fed the flock. Zech 11

45 Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more evil than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man becometh worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this evil generation. Mt 12

49 I came to cast fire upon the earth [the land]; and what do I desire, if it is already kindled?
50 But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished!
51 Think ye that I am come to give peace in the earth [the land]? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:
52 for there shall be from henceforth five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three.
53 They shall be divided, father against son, and son against father; mother against daughter, and daughter against her mother; mother in law against her daughter in law, and daughter in law against her mother in law.
54 And he said to the multitudes also, When ye see a cloud rising in the west, straightway ye say, There cometh a shower; and so it cometh to pass.
55 And when ye see a south wind blowing, ye say, There will be a scorching heat; and it cometh to pass.
56 Ye hypocrites, ye know how to interpret the face of the earth and the heaven; but how is it that ye know not how to interpret this time? Lu 12

When reading the Wars of the Jews you're getting a front row seat view of the fulfillment of such prophecies (there's several others). Josephus covers in detail (and laments) the ever progressive infighting and civil war that set upon the Jews of 'that generation'. More Jews were killed by Jews than by the Romans.

 

[PastoralMusings]

Adam's Chart shows Isaiah's life about 760-698 with Cyrus sending Zerubabel to Jerusalem in 536.
Ussher puts Isaiah alive in 808 and Cyrus' decree in 537.
Neither specifically mention the time of Isaiah's prophecy concerning Cyrus that I can see.

 

[tyndale1946]

Actually that section of his works isn't all that long. When/if you do read it remember such passages such as:

3 A voice of the wailing of the shepherds! for their glory is destroyed: a voice of the roaring of young lions! for the pride of the Jordan is laid waste.
4 Thus said Jehovah my God: Feed the flock of slaughter;
5 whose possessors slay them, and hold themselves not guilty; and they that sell them say, Blessed be Jehovah, for I am rich; and their own shepherds pity them not.
6 For I will no more pity the inhabitants of the land, saith Jehovah; but, lo, I will deliver the men every one into his neighbor`s hand, and into the hand of his king; and they shall smite the land, and out of their hand I will not deliver them.
7 So I fed the flock of slaughter, verily the poor of the flock. And I took unto me two staves; the one I called Beauty, and the other I called Bands; and I fed the flock. Zech 11

45 Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more evil than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man becometh worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this evil generation. Mt 12

49 I came to cast fire upon the earth [the land]; and what do I desire, if it is already kindled?
50 But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished!
51 Think ye that I am come to give peace in the earth [the land]? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:
52 for there shall be from henceforth five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three.
53 They shall be divided, father against son, and son against father; mother against daughter, and daughter against her mother; mother in law against her daughter in law, and daughter in law against her mother in law.
54 And he said to the multitudes also, When ye see a cloud rising in the west, straightway ye say, There cometh a shower; and so it cometh to pass.
55 And when ye see a south wind blowing, ye say, There will be a scorching heat; and it cometh to pass.
56 Ye hypocrites, ye know how to interpret the face of the earth and the heaven; but how is it that ye know not how to interpret this time? Lu 12

When reading the Wars of the Jews you're getting a front row seat view of the fulfillment of such prophecies (there's several others). Josephus covers in detail (and laments) the ever progressive infighting and civil war that set upon the Jews of 'that generation'. More Jews were killed by Jews than by the Romans.

I know that after reading excepts here and there as I saw the need but I like the old writings... Read Eusebius' Ecclesiastical History, now reading along with Josephus, Saint Irenaeus Of Lyons Against Heresies which a preacher friend of mine said every Christian should read... All the books I mentioned I have in my library... Thanks for the info my brother Kentucky... What are you reading?... Brother Glen

 

[kyredneck]

What are you reading?

Lol, National Geographic 'Journeys of a Lifetime: 500 of the World's Greatest Trips' (lots of cool pictures and maps (I love maps )). Been reviewing Pink's 'Life Of David' too.

 

[kyredneck]

Eusebius'

Irenaeus

Josephus

Josephus was an actual EYEWITNESS to much of the events he records. It's like having a front row seat....

[add]

He was a priest of the noble order, 'general' of the Galilean forces that first opposed Vespavian, and then captive of Vespavian and Titus, used as a go between emissary to the rebellious Jews to plead with them to lay down their arms (to no avail).

 

[rlvaughn]

Adam's Chart shows Isaiah's life about 760-698 with Cyrus sending Zerubabel to Jerusalem in 536.
Ussher puts Isaiah alive in 808 and Cyrus' decree in 537.
Neither specifically mention the time of Isaiah's prophecy concerning Cyrus that I can see.

Specifically dating the time Isaiah gave his prophecy concerning Cyrus is the biggest problem in more accurately dating the time of the prophecy to the time of Cyrus, as I see it. I probably just need to be content with knowing the time frame of Isaiah's life.