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From the beginning of what?

B

billwald

New Member
From another thread:

Joh_8:44 You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and has nothing to do with the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks out of his own character, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

A murderer from the beginning of what? Did God intentionally create Satan as a murderer?
 
M

Michael Wrenn

New Member
billwald said:
From another thread:

Joh_8:44 You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and has nothing to do with the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks out of his own character, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

A murderer from the beginning of what? Did God intentionally create Satan as a murderer?
Click to expand...

No, He intentionally created Satan with free will, just like all His other sentient beings.
 
M

Michael Wrenn

New Member
billwald said:
How do you extract that from the text?
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I extracted it from the text that relates how Lucifer was a high ranking being in heaven who chose to rebel against God and got kicked out of heaven. God didn't make him rebel; he freely chose to do so, just as Adam and Eve freely chose to do. "The devil didn't make them do it", they chose to disobey God.
 
D

DaChaser1

New Member
billwald said:
From another thread:

Joh_8:44 You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and has nothing to do with the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks out of his own character, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

A murderer from the beginning of what? Did God intentionally create Satan as a murderer?
Click to expand...


Found a murderer abd a liar at the time that hechose to rebell against God!

God created him perfect in all his ways, but He also allowed for potential evil
to happen, and satan freely decided to do as he saw fit!

God needed to have evil in creation in order to bring to pass the Cross and eventually a glorious recreation, that he would redeem back man and creation to his glory, but satan fulfilled that role as he desired to do!
 
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WestminsterMan

New Member
DaChaser1 said:
Found a murderer abd a liar at the time that hechose to rebell against God!

God created him perfect in all his ways, but He also allowed for potential evil
to happen, and satan freely decided to do as he saw fit!

God needed to have evil in creation in order to bring to pass the Cross and eventually a glorious recreation, that he would redeem back man and creation to his glory, but satan fulfilled that role as he desired to do!
Click to expand...

Poor ol' satan. I guess he was doomed from the beginning. Seriously, God did not create anything evil. Evil is a state of being - a state of REBELLION against God and not the atrribute that you say God needed.

WM
 
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DaChaser1

New Member
WestminsterMan said:
Poor ol' satan. I guess he was doomed from the beginning. Seriously, God did not create anything evil. Evil is a state of being - a state of REBELLION against God and not the atrribute that you say God needed.

WM
Click to expand...

God 'needed" a Judas to betray jesus in order to fulfill the scriptures, but Judas still did that willingly!

God "used" satan in the same sense, as the Devil willing chose to become enemy of God, and yet God also had him already predestined in His master plans!
 
M

Michael Wrenn

New Member
WestminsterMan said:
Poor ol' satan. I guess he was doomed from the beginning. Seriously, God did not create anything evil. Evil is a state of being - a state of REBELLION against God and not the atrribute that you say God needed.

WM
Click to expand...

I agree, and it's stuff like this that makes me know that Calvinism is the most deplorable, detestable, abhorrent theology that was ever invented by a murderer and persecutor.
 
B

billwald

New Member
God says someplace in Psalms that he does good and he does evil. I can never remember the verse numbers. One of you should know the scripture.
 
C

convicted1

Guest
Michael Wrenn said:
I extracted it from the text that relates how Lucifer was a high ranking being in heaven who chose to rebel against God and got kicked out of heaven. God didn't make him rebel; he freely chose to do so, just as Adam and Eve freely chose to do. "The devil didn't make them do it", they chose to disobey God.
Click to expand...

:thumbs::thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:
 
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DaChaser1

New Member
Michael Wrenn said:
I agree, and it's stuff like this that makes me know that Calvinism is the most deplorable, detestable, abhorrent theology that was ever invented by a murderer and persecutor.
Click to expand...

Does God use Evil acts and persons to accomplish His will?

yep!

Does God cause calaimity to happen at times?

Yes!

is God sovereign at all times?

Yep!

Calvinist God same One as in the Bible, how about yours?
 
M

Michael Wrenn

New Member
DaChaser1 said:
Does God use Evil acts and persons to accomplish His will?

yep!

Does God cause calaimity to happen at times?

Yes!

is God sovereign at all times?

Yep!

Calvinist God same One as in the Bible, how about yours?
Click to expand...

Nope, can't find him in mine. :) The God in my Bible is the God of freedom, not fatalistic determinism.
 
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