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Featured Full Preterism: True or False

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by OldRegular, Jan 20, 2013.

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  1. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    In his book, The Last Days According to Jesus, R. C. Sproul summarizes the doctrine of Full Preterism using four criteria or events, contrasting Full Preterism with Partial Preterism [page157].

    The four criteria or Events are:

    1. The Coming [parousia or presence] of Jesus Christ.

    2. Resurrection and Rapture.

    3. Day of the Lord.

    4. Judgment.

    The Full Preterist believe that all of these Events occurred in 70 AD and that none will ever occur again. The Partial Preterist believes that Events 1, 3, and 4 occurred in some sense in 70 AD but that all will occur sometime in the Future. My own personal opinion, and I believe the teaching of Scripture, is that the only Event that occurred in 70AD was God's judgment of the Jews and the destruction of the Temple decisively demonstrating that the Old Covenant was no more. I believe that part of the Olivet Discourse of Jesus Christ is a prophecy of the events of 70 AD and part is a prophecy of the Visible Return of Jesus Christ at the end of time.

    If the Partial Preterists want to believe that the events of 70 AD can be characterized as a parousia and a Day of the Lord, as well as a judgment, then I see no over riding error with that belief though I personally do not see that in Scripture. However, the idea of the parousia [or presence of Jesus Christ] in 70 AD is troubling.

    I totally disagree with the Full Preterist view and believe there is absolutely no Biblical support for denying the occurrence of the four events at the end of time. It seems to me that there is one passage of Scripture that destroys the Full Preterist doctrine, the prophecy of Jesus Christ concerning the Resurrection of the body:

    John 5:28, 29
    28. Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
    29. And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

    Now I understand that those of premillennial persuasion will insist that the above Scripture pictures a resurrection at two different periods. I do not want this thread to deteriorate into a debate over that issue.

    I want the Full Preterists on this Board to demonstrate through Scripture and the history of the 70 AD events that the resurrections of the above Scripture occurred at that time!
     
    #1 OldRegular, Jan 20, 2013
  2. Grasshopper

    Grasshopper Active Member
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    Good summary, however RC Sproul teaches a spiritual Ressurrection has occured but a physical Ressurrection is still future. A problem for me became a redefining of what Ressurrection is. Full preterist redefine that term.

    If you do hold to a partial preterist view, then it is almost impossible to deny AD 70 was a parousia event based on a comparison of Luke and Matthew as shown:

    http://www.google.com/search?q=matt...oAQ&biw=768&bih=928#biv=i|2;d|PfgVMYioNBmVeM:
     
    #2 Grasshopper, Jan 20, 2013
  3. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    i believe in a spiritual resurrection but I would call it the "new birth". I believe Jesus Christ is talking about a spiritual resurrection in john 5:25!
     
    #3 OldRegular, Jan 20, 2013
  4. Grasshopper

    Grasshopper Active Member
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    Yes, the full preterist would say this is the only Ressurrection the Bible speaks of. Jesus said "I am the Ressurrection". Ressurrected from death (Adam) unto life (Jesus). No need for a "physical" Ressurrection. This is the biggest hurdle for most when trying to go from partial to full. It was a hurdle Sproul would not cross.
     
    #4 Grasshopper, Jan 20, 2013
  5. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    I would be interested to see how they get around the verses in the OP!
     
    #5 OldRegular, Jan 20, 2013
  6. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    Some of you folks may avoid the thread: "Tracing the Origins of Coming on the Clouds". Therefore, I am taking the liberty of repeating a post I rebutting the false doctrine of Full Preterism championed by "word-1" on that thread.

     
    #6 OldRegular, Jan 21, 2013
  7. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    I noted in the OP that R. C. Sproul in his book The Last Days According to Jesus summarizes the doctrine of Full Preterism using four criteria or events and contrasted Partial Preterism with Fulll Preterism.

    Folks there is a vast difference between Partial Preterism and Full Preterism, the difference between daylight and dark. It is very possible for a "futurist" to be a Partial Preterist depending on how they view the events of 70 AD. I am not a futurist in the dispensational sense of the word but for me the Return of Jesus Christ, the Resurrection of all the dead, the White Throne Judgment with Satan cast into the Lake of Fire, and the New Heavens and New Earth are Biblical facts. I also believe that the judgment of God was poured out on Jerusalem and the Jews in 70 AD bringing a definitive end to the Old Covenant, consistent with the prophecy of Jesus Christ in the Olivet Discourse.
     
    #7 OldRegular, Jan 21, 2013
  8. convicted1

    convicted1 Guest

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    False.........
     
    #8 convicted1, Jan 21, 2013
  9. convicted1

    convicted1 Guest

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    I agree with this.

    A question for you: when we come forth from the graves with a new body likened unto Jesus' most glorious body, do you believe it to be phyiscal or spritual in its form? Personally, I believe it to be spiritual.
     
    #9 convicted1, Jan 21, 2013
  10. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    What is false?
     
    #10 OldRegular, Jan 21, 2013
  11. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    It is obviously visible since 500 plus people saw Jesus Christ after the resurrection. Paul calls the resurrection body a "spiritual body".

    1 Corinthians 15:42-44
    42. So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
    43. It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
    44. It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

    I can't say any more than that because I don't know any more than that!
     
    #11 OldRegular, Jan 21, 2013
  12. convicted1

    convicted1 Guest

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    The full-preterists have the resurrection and Jesus Christ's return at AD 70. Our hope IS IN the resurrection, which IS Jesus Christ. If these things occurred in AD 70, we have no hope.....but He will come when God the Father tells Him to come in the Cloud, and we will be resurrected that morning.
     
    #12 convicted1, Jan 21, 2013
  13. convicted1

    convicted1 Guest

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    And I concur with this, as well....
     
    #13 convicted1, Jan 21, 2013
  14. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    Show me where I said Jesus Christ returned in 70 AD or where He is not going to return again. I am attempting to refute Full preterism, not defend it!

    I will remind you what I said:

     
    #14 OldRegular, Jan 21, 2013
  15. convicted1

    convicted1 Guest

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    Chill.......Brother....chill....Brother Baker. I wasn't saying you were in their camp....go back and read what I posted. The OP asked a "true or false" and I stated "false". You, then in turn, asked me why it was "false", and when I stated why, you blasted me and accused me of something I never said about you. Go back and reread before you "put someone on blast", please.
     
    #15 convicted1, Jan 21, 2013
  16. convicted1

    convicted1 Guest

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    I know you're not a full-preterist Brother Baker....and would never make such a claim to falsely accuse you as such......we're both in the partial camp......:thumbs::thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:
     
    #16 convicted1, Jan 21, 2013
  17. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    You need to go back and read the OP. There was no true or false question there.
     
    #17 OldRegular, Jan 21, 2013
  18. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    I cant just wait to see what happens, trust in God & be at peace? I have to take sides on something my lord says I dont have control over?
     
    #18 Earth Wind and Fire, Jan 21, 2013
  19. convicted1

    convicted1 Guest

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    Well, Brother Baker, here's the title to the OP:

    Full Preterism: True or False

    I stated "false", you then asked why, I stated such, and then the downward spiral......
     
    #19 convicted1, Jan 21, 2013
  20. Luke2427

    Luke2427 Active Member

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    I agree.

    I think the AD 70 event was a coming of Christ in judgment just as he said he would in Matthew 24.

    I think it could not be more clear that Matthew 24 is referring to AD 70.

    And I think that the future physical resurrection of the dead is supported elsewhere in Scripture.

    I don't believe that there is a doctrine anywhere within orthodox Christianity that has as little scriptural support as the rapture doctrine of the dispnesationalists.

    I am a partial preterist.
     
    #20 Luke2427, Jan 21, 2013
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